Hi my name is Charlie Finn and I found a beautiful little 1978 Fiat Spyder in the local paper. Great body, almost no rust, engine runs great, took it for a ride. Needs a new wind shield, front breaks, and steering arm to be road worthy. I am buying it this week, but my mechanic won't even look at it, to give it a once over for me to see what else might need done. what a joy crusher. This is a hobby car for me, not a main need of transportation. All you Spyder owners seem very happy and passionate about your cars. My mechanic told me to run. Who is right? I'm from British Columbia Canada. Is there anywhere I can order parts if i want to work on myself? If I can't install breaks (basically no mechanics experience, but a smart guy if i had a manual) is there somewhere I could go to get help? Any advice from all you wise spyder owners would be great. Nice to meet you and thanks for letting me join your club.
welcome to the site! IMHO your mechanic is wrong, but certainly entitled to his opinion. There are sources for parts and service in BC. Joe Clemente is a member here, and his brother runs a shop in BC. Repair manuals are availalbe, and the cars aren't hard to work on. Usually the biggest challenges are figuring out what previous owners rigged up during home repairs
Well, it's good to see someone is excited about me buying this car. Where does the spider shop in B.C. reside? I live in Kelowna, the okanagan. So far I can only find this british automotive place that says they will help me out. Obviously I would prefer advice from a garage that deals with spiders here and there. Also, if I am replacing spider breaks, and I put some sort of generic, or breaks from a different country in my spider, does that make it less legit? Should I aim for only true blue Spider Parts?
If it feels right get it, you will find plenty of help here if you run into problems, I know I have. I bought my Spider with the promise it ran (no key to confirm) and busted steering as well. I was able to get the steering fixed thanks to a board member as well as my ignition issues worked out thanks to many members. Good luck with the purchase!
What do you mean by needing new breaks? If you are referring to just needing new pads, I'd just get the highest performance pads available from a good auto parts store. I may be wrong, and there are surely people more knowledgeable on this forum than I am, but if you are talking about break pads ruining the collectibility of the car, than you are probably considering paying too much for the car to begin with.
Spiders, both alfa and fiat are one of those things that you are typically going to be able to find a better price if you look a little more. I'd shop around and familiarize yourself with what exactly is a good deal on one, and go from there. They really aren't that hard to find, unless you are looking for a particular year or options package.
Thanks for the great advice. Actually I have looked around the papers, ebay, the internet to see what the average price is. This fellow is selling his for 2500$ but recently just reduced to 1100$. He wants to sell before winter and doesn't want to pay storage on it. Im going halfers with my parents and essentially getting a spider with a great body, and it runs good, for 500$ out of my own pocket. Just needs a couple things worked on to get it road worthy. Wind shield, front breaks (it does have a break system already but pulls to the left- i heard spyders do that). And one other part that connects the wheel to the car for turning? drive shaft? anyways it is buckling and needs to be replaced as well. i heard that part is 120$ Anyways spider, looks great, runs good, for 500$, i'd be stupid not to take it right?
Don't let you rmechanic scare you. These cars are exceptionaly easy to work on and parts are plentiful and generally inexpensive. Just do a search on parts suppliers -- there are several posts with links to some of the more popular suppliers. I have done all my own work on my car with only moderate experience working on cars previously (from high school day decades ago) and no experience with Fiats. You will definitely want to pick up at least one manual though.
John
'82 Fiat Spider Turbo
'56 Abarth 750 GT Corsa MM
'59 Lancia Appia GTE Zagato
'62 Lancia Flaminia 2.5 3C Convertible
'68 Lancia Fulvia Sport Zagato
'70 Moretti Sportiva S2
'12 Abarth 500
'59 MV Agusta 250 Raid
You'll have to do a member search for Joe Clemente and email him about his brothers' shop.
As for brakes, it sounds like you're considering the calipers rather than just a routine brake pad replacment. There aren't any other brake systems that are a bolt on replacement other than the Whoa Brake upgrade kit.
As for pulling when braking, pads won't normally cause that. You may have a sticky caliper or it could be steering related. Since you mentioned a worn steering part, I'd fix that first.
Sounds like a great deal on the Spider, I wouldn't pass it up
Hello, and welcome to the forum. There has been a lot of discussion about the reputation Fiat has and where it came from.
The consesus is that when Fiat had dealerships in the US they didn't do a good job of giving thier dealer network good backup. Consequently a lot of problems didn't get fixed, or were patched. There are a lot of cars represented on this forum and they are all 25-40 years old. A majority of them run good and are dependable. The ones that reached this age and are still in good shape owe it to the owners who took care early on or take care of them now.
That being said, there are mechanics out there who won't work on them. They've either bought into the myth or are reluctant to work on something they are unfamiliar with, especially one they can't plug into a compurter to do the diagnostics for them.
All you need to do is find a good mechanic. And as stated, these cars are relatively easy to work on, you'd save money and have an enjoyable hobby if you did your own work. Anything you don't know, you have plenty of people here to help you when you need it.
Go for it! This is a fun car and a great community of owners.
Ron
Ron Luxmore rlux2n2@gmail.com
'82 2000 Spider: after 26 years between Spiders.
welcome to the site. Other than structural rust.... there should be nothing to fear with a 1978 Spider. check the floorboards and shock towers carefully for cancer.
Your mechanic may be just saying to you that he has enough profitable business with the current vehicles coming in that he does not want to spend his time refreshing himself on 30 year old technology. nothing wrong with that.
besides, that is why this forum exists! to give folks like you the avenue to learn about their hobby cars. We collectively can help you solve nearly every issue that Spider may have...except structural rust.
When inspecting my new spider for rust, where should i make sure to look? Is it okay to look myself, or are there parts that i couldn't really see without getting a professional inspection.
This guide comes from spiderweb.nl , they have it from another forum
A Buying Guide For Fiat 124 Spiders
by Eric Henning - Mirafiori.com
So you think you want to buy one of those sharp looking Fiat Spiders?
You're not sure because of everything you've heard about Fiat's. Well here's the straight skinny.
Almost everything to look for when contemplating buying one of these beauties.
For quick reference the door handles on pre-1979 were hand grab with thumb-activated push button. 1979 and post Spiders came with aerodynamic pull out latches. Also earlier version had close to the body chrome bumpers versus the tubular later ones.
Engine-wise newer models had fuel injection starting mid 1980 so some 1980 have carburators and later ones fuel injection. There are many sources for parts, new and used. Several mail order suppliers deal only in Italian cars. Getting parts is not a problem. Most items are reasonably priced but some items such as steering idlers, air flow meters can be expensive. As with any car not currently in production and without millions produced, going into a parts store may not yield off the shelf parts. On the other hand, common type parts are still available such as wheel bearings, headlights, etc... are available off the shelf.
First Contact
If found through an advertisement, you will first have to ascertain whether it is worth looking at. General questions include basic: Is it running? Inspectable? Overall condition, rust, problems, etc... Only you can decide if you want to visit the car.
Once you decide to go see the car the following is a guide to what you might find. I always suggest bring any car to a mechanic to have them put it up on a lift, so you can see whats underneath.Try to find one that deals with Italian cars or at least foreign cars.
Rust
Spiders are pretty rust prone, especially where salt is used on the roads in winter. Typical exterior areas are around the wheel arches. If there is no rust here it has probably already been fixed. Ask how long ago it was fixed, who fixed it, etc... Anything fixed within a year may have been done just to sell the car and could start looking bad again unless it was fixed properly. Nothing special about fixing these rust areas. Trunk and hood lids also rust, towards the latch area on trunks and towards the hinge area on hoods. Trunk lids can be expensive, hoods can usually be found used for € 100.- to € 200.-. A lot of hoods may have been creased in the front when the hood was opened and extended too far either by wind or owner removing the parts that keep the hood from flipping all the way over when opened. Trunk lids seem to be harder to find and more expensive than engine hoods.
Harder to spot rust areas are the floors, uniframe and shock towers. The entire floor is susceptible to rust. As this is a unibody, any structure rust can be serious. If it is only isolated perforations in the floor it is generally considered not structural, patching will fix but you must be aware that other rust may be lurking throughout the floor area. The bottom "back seat" pops right out. Just push back and up. Now you will be able to see if that part of floor is rusted. If car has manual transmission, check firewall near clutch pedal. This area may fatique and start to distort causing hard clutch engagement.
Shock towers - Inspect these carefully. They can rust and start to deform. Check inside the front wheel wells behind the springs and also inside the engine bay where the shock top mounts to the body. Look for any bowing of metal or through hole rust perforations. If the rust is severe you are looking at major restoration (read €€€ or $$$). Look for another car.
Side Rails - these are the rails that run along the outside of the car front to back. Usually covered by sheet metal panels. Lie on ground and look up all along these rails as they give most of the support and keep the car from folding in half. Fixable but require cutting and welding.
Undercariage anchoring points - Look carefully at where the suspension points attach to the unibody. They should be solid connections. If they are pulling out, could mean serious restoration needed. The front crossmember can also be a serious problem in these cars. The crossmember is the metal beam that passes under the oil pan and ties the left and right side of the front together. It anchors the lower control arms for the front wheels and also has the motor mounts attached to it. The cross member is held on each side by two bolts pointing down from the unibody frame and by one bolt going from the engine bay to the wheel well about midpoint of the coil spring. The bolts pointing down tend to loosen or even pull out of the unibody frame. If you place a floor jack under the crossmember and jack the car up, you can then see if you can wiggle these bolts. If they wiggle chances are you can't tighten them as the bolt and nut will spin together as you try. The other bolt that passes through the engine bay to spring can have the eyelet snap and the bolt not supporting the crossmember anymore. Jack car up at proper jack points, see if crossmember separates from frame. Should stay snug up against frame. Fixes to these problems range from removing the engine and fixing the unibody frame, welding the crossmember to the frame (not recommended as any damage incurred later to the front end will not be really fixable), or removing old bolts and replacing with longer bolts that go from the top of the unibody frame rail through the crossmember and out the bottom so that you can tighten them up as necessary. A loose crossmember will cause unpredictable handling when braking. The car may pull left or right depending on how the wheels are pointed.
Doors that don't close right may indicate the frame is relaxing due to structural weakness. Could also mean hinges are cracked. Check hinge area for stress cracks, rust.
Mechanicals
Wheel bearings - Shake each tire to see if there's any play or clunking sounds. Wheels should not be loose or have any play. Could indicate wheels bearings or ball joints need replacement.
Engine - Tend to leak oil. Oil pans will all have dents due to the low protruding pan. If not crushed too bad, should not affect anything other than causing oil pan gasket to leak. If severely dented could have a broken oil sump, will be evident by rattling noise form the pan area. Other places oil will tend to leak are the head gaskets, distributor where it goes into the block, and where the cam housing meets the head. These leaks are not difficult to fix for the average backyard mechanic but take time to remove necessary parts. All in all the Spider is a pretty simple car to work on. Drive belt should be inspected if possible. Should be replaced if age unknown and changed every 30k miles onward. If you do buy the car and do replace the drive belt, remove the tin shield backing of the drive belt and put in box for later to discard. This way you can inspect the drive belt without having to remove the whole front of the engine. If belt breaks, valve will be bent or block cracked. Cars with the 2000cc engine will not bend valves but the aux. cam that has a lobe for the old mechanical fuel pump will hit and cause the block to crack. Some people remove this lobe and now have a "freewheeling engine" that won't be damaged if the drive belt snaps. If you do an engine compression test, reading should all be close to one another, if one cylinder noticeably lower could be headgasket, valves, rings - maybe time for rebuild.
Look for hoses that don't go anywhere or are plugged. Could mean smog equipment has been removed. Getting tougher to find these items and with increased smog testing might cause emission failures. Some states do a visual inspection for these components - no smog equipment - no passing.
Check dipstick for water coolant and check coolant for oil.
Engine Cooling - Take a nice long test drive. Temp gauge should not go past straight up at 190 C. In stop and go traffic needle may go slightly past 190 C but fan should kick in and hold temp down. Air trapped in cooling system isn't uncommon causing engine to get warmer than it should. Best way to get air out is to install flushing tee at highest point in system.
Transmission - 5 speed tends to have problems with popping out of gear or losing 4th gear altogether. Having someone rebuild the 5 speed can be expensive. The automatics have the same guts as the GM T-180 tranny. I believe it is the same one used in the Chevette. Not much to say about the automatic, either it seems to work smooth or it doesn't. At least finding a shop to work on it shouldn't be a problem. Run through all the manual gears, shouldn't have to grind any to engage. Don't rest hand on shifter, accelerate sharply then remove foot from gas to see if tranny pops out of gear. For manual gear box make sure Non-EP oil was used. Using EP oil will result in all the problems listed above.
Drivetrain - While driving listen for whining and feel for vibrations. Whining could indicate rear end or tranny problems. Accelerate hard from standing start, shouldn't hear any clunking noises. If you do hear noises could be driveshaft, transmission and motor mounts. If any buzzing, banging, vibration, or skipping tires - probably rear-end is about to go. Rear ends tend to die rather rapidly from first signs of distress. Pre-1978 rear-ends seem to be more robust than post '78 rear ends. Can be interchanged.
Brakes - Fiat 124 Spiders always had disc brakes on all four wheels. Usually work OK but should be bled every six months for best results. Bleeder screws tend to snap off. Caliper re-build kits are available at less than € 10.-. When test driving, brake hard, shouldn't pull to one side but probably will due to sticking caliper. Grinding noise may indicate wheel bearings bad or rotors needing turning. If car has sat for awhile, rotors are probably rusty. Replacing brake pads on these cars is a no brainer. biggest problem are air in system and contaminated fluid. Emergency Brake - pull emergency brake lever up, put car in gear and try to drive gently forward. Should be some resistance, if not emergency brake cable could be bad or need adjustment.
Wheels - Standard wheels aren't too exciting and aftermarket wheels are available but you must make sure the hole spacings are 98 mm and not 100 mm. So if the car has custom wheels this is a plus, unless of course you like the originals. Check for spare under floor in trunk. Finding a proper rim may involve many trips to various junkyards. Most junkyards will not have any Fiats. If your local junkyard does have some Fiats, chances are there is a Fiat enthusiast in the area and these are the remains of their parts cars. Some people feel that these cars are discarded unwarrantedly and should be restored, not junked.
Check tire wear patterns. Uneven wear indicates alignment problems.
Suspension - Front control arm bushings should be checked. They tend to crack and fall apart causing strange handling. Bushings themselves cost about € 5,- each but without a press they're tough to put in. Replacing whole control arms isn't to bad as long as you have a coil spring compressor. Check all bushings as they will affect handling. Check to see that the part going through the bushing is evenly spaced all around. If the part that goes through the bushing is resting up against another metal piece, bushing needs to be replaced.
Steering - Stiff steering could indicate the need for a new steering idler. Kind of expensive and may be hard to find. Stiff steering could also be low air in tires. Excessive steering wheel play may be able to be adjusted out.
Electricals
Italian cars archille heel tends to be the electrical system, usually poor grounds. Most strange and intermittent problems can be traced back to corroded connections and poor grounds. A good cleaning and electrical paste clears up alot of problems.
Headlights - every Spider has dim headlights. Even if halogens are put in they will not be as bright as you think they should. Dimness is attributed to voltage drop in wiring. Can be corrected by using light switch through relay to power lights directly from 12 volts. The Spider is one of the few cars that you will probably stop to check that the high beams are working because as soon as you turned them on, it got even darker outside.
Dual Point Distributors (used from 73 to 78) - Generally thought of as a pain but can be made to work properly. Can be swapped out. Fuel Injected Spiders do not have any points, one less thing to adjust.
Clock - All Spiders will have clouded clock face unless the plastic lens has been replaced by glass. Good chance clock will not work.
Gas Gauge - Sensor in tank tends to wear out making mid-range in gas gauge off. There is a low gas sensor light that lights when tank has 1 to 2 gallons left.
Battery - In trunk for weight distribution. If sealed battery not used, venting gases will cause corrosion around battery. There is a vent tube but usually clogged allowing corrosive gas build up.
Alternator Charge light - may glow slightly (only noticeable at night). Generally attributed to a poor ground somewhere. Usually not a concern unless it glows bright red.
Interior
Dashboard and center console may have cracks. replacements are available as are covers. New replacements are expensive.
Down by your feet are kick panels with map pockets. Map pockets may have been broken and removed.
Seats may have a slight tilt torwards the center of the car. Grasp seat firmly and give alittle shake. Mounting bolts may just be loose or anchor points may be rusted.
Heater controls between the front seats. Doesn't matter what position you put them in, you'll always have warm air toasting your feet.
General
Check that all switches, lights, knobs, etc... work. Windshield washer is activated by gently pulling wiper arm towards you. Probably won't work. Wiper motor can be expensive, make sure it works. Headlights will not turn on with key out of ignition (car must be running).
Replacement tops run from € 150,- for vinyl to € 500,- for fabric. Putting a new top on isn't too hard. If the car doesn't come with a boot cover, get one. They cover the convertible top when down and dress the car up nicely.
Other Things
Check for jack and lug wrench. Not a big deal but an expense and hassle to replace.
Modified Cars - Not uncommon to find Spiders that have parts installed from earlier/later Spiders. Just be aware of all the owners modifications and make notes for future reference. Don't assume because the car is a 1981 it's rear-end isn't from a 1978. Or the intake manifold in your 1979 is really from a 1978 for slight performance upgrade.
Anyone who likes to work on their own cars will not have a hard time with these cars. They are fairly easy to work on and straightforward. If you just plan on filling the gas tank and doing no tinkering, these cars are not for you (unless of course you pay someone to do your tinkering)
It is extremely easy to put much more money into these cars than you can get if you try and sell it. Generally, you can find a nice example that has had most of the problems fixed for € 2500,- to € 4000,- If you must buy a project car try and find one with a solid uniframe. A € 200,- car may seem exciting at first , but the amount of time and Euro's or Dollars spent will take alot of the fun out of these cars, especially when you realize you just spent € 5000,- on a car now worth € 3000,-. Of course once you drive and own a Spider you will also realize they are way under valued. Maybe as more and more end up at the crusher, the re-sale value will be more in-line with their actual worth.
Recommendations:
Any unrusted Spider is a plus. Pre-1973 because of the original type looks and less or no emission equipment to drain power, or post early 1980's (fuel injection) because of the F.I. and decent power. Models between 1973 and 1980 can be tweaked using various stock parts off other years to overcome sluggish performance. Of course any Abarth modified Spider should be snapped up. Abarth modified stock Spiders into high performance racers.
Thank you so much. This will be a lot of help for me while self inspecting this vehicle to see if it is worth getting inspected professionally. I hope it all works out so I can show you guys some pics. I really appreciate all the advice, Thank you!
what a joy crusher. This is a hobby car for me, not a main need of transportation. All you Spyder owners seem very happy and passionate about your cars. My mechanic told me to run. Who is right? I'm from British Columbia Canada. Is there anywhere I can order parts if i want to work on myself? If I can't install breaks (basically no mechanics experience, but a smart guy if i had a manual) is there somewhere I could go to get help? Any advice from all you wise spyder owners would be great. Nice to meet you and thanks for letting me join your club.
