Ignition Switch

[johndemar]

So I finally got the car running again after replacing the head gasket, and the ignition switch starts getting flakey.
Had to giggle the wires to get power to start and actually heard a few sparks. Then the only way there was any power wasn't until I began cranking.
I purchased an aftermarket switch from one of our vendors and it solved all the problems. But the aftermarket switches don't have as many terminals as the original Sipea switch. One less 30 and no 16 at all for the electric fuel pump. I piggybacked the fuel pump on number 15, but was using the extra 30 for a headlight relay, even though I rarely drive the car after dark.


Sorry for the rambling, my question is, has anyone successfully rebuild the Sipea switch? There's a step by step procedure online and I'm thinking it may be worth the effort.

[blazingspider]

You really won't know until you take it all apart. If the only issue is dirty contacts then you can clean them up and re-assemble it. I had problems with the original Sipea ignition switch in my 77 and once I had it all apart I discovered that the bakelite had melted and deformed around some of the contacts from all of the heat generated over the years. As I could not source any replacement pieces for the switch it was not a candidate for refurbishment.

[johndemar]

I know what you mean. I took apart a TV remote this week thinking all I would need to do was clean up the contact points and found some of those contacts melted.
But it will cost me nothing to try and I have the time.

[spider2081]

But it will cost me nothing to try and I have the time.

I believe there are 3 generations of the Sipea ignition switch used in the Fiat Spiders. Here is a link to one way of repairing one of the 3 types. I think yours will be similar. I like to use a Dremal type tool and a carbide burr to grind the head of the brass rivets off rather than drilling. Too often the rivets spin when attempting to drill. Also I tap the base rivet holes (end where the terminals pass through) with a 2-56 tap si I don't use nuts a the link shows. I dill the other half of the bakelite for a counter sunk 2-56 screw and install 3 2-56 flat head screws to replace the rivets.

http://www.njfiats.org/joomla/images/st ... epair.html

Hope this helps.

[spider2081]

I had problems with the original Sipea ignition switch in my 77 and once I had it all apart I discovered that the bakelite had melted and deformed around some of the contacts from all of the heat generated over the years.

The later model Spiders used a Sipea ignition switch that used form of bakelite to hold the switch contacts and terminals. I'm thinking Bakelite has a melting point well over 1500 degrees F. Not likely to melt or deform. I wonder if you had a non-standard switch in your 77.

[johndemar]

Thanks for the tip on the 2-56 tap and screws. Glad I've procrastinated on starting this.

[blazingspider]

The later model Spiders used a Sipea ignition switch that used form of bakelite to hold the switch contacts and terminals. I'm thinking Bakelite has a melting point well over 1500 degrees F. Not likely to melt or deform. I wonder if you had a non-standard switch in your 77.

My ignition switch was original to the car and definitely a Sipea. In the picture below the bakelite half on the right is from my original switch and you can see the indentations from 2 of the terminal contact ends corresponding to 15 and 30/1. I assumed at the time that I took this switch apart these depressions were created from excessive heat as I couldn't think of anything else that would have created them.

The bakelite half on the left is from another Sipea switch that I had acquired. There is a slight depression on the lower left corresponding to terminal 50.



In the picture below, the terminal on the left was from the bakelite half on the left and the terminal on the right was from the bakelite half on the right. As you can see at some point in time, Fiat covered the bottom of the contact with some sort of compound that wasn't present on any of the terminals in my original switch. Once again I assumed that the "coating" was added to prevent what happened to my original switch.



I had no idea that the bakelite used in Sipea switches had such a high melting point. So if the damage wasn't from excessive heat what created these indentations in the bakelite?

[spider2081]

My ignition switch was original to the car and definitely a Sipea.

Thank you for your post and photos. The photos certainly look like the original Sepia parts. I have serviced well over 20 Sepia ignition switches and yet to see heat damage like you experienced. I have un-soldered and re-soldered the wires on the bakelite switches with no issues. Its very hard to do the same with the switches that have the nylon parts.
I googled the melting point for bakelite for the melting point and used the temperature from the first thing I read. Since seeing your post I looked at many of the responses and found baklelite material begins to decompose at much lower temperatures. I think it doesn't actually melt or turn soft but it crumbles or becomes lie a powder.
Thanks again for your input. I'm still learning

[blazingspider]

I have serviced well over 20 Sepia ignition switches and yet to see heat damage like you experienced.

Curious to know if all of these switches were the later version with the pigtail soldered to the back of the switch terminals? Perhaps that's why Fiat started to do that.

FYI, my switch had been in use for 20 years and 150,000 miles before I opened it up to refurbish it only to discover the damage that made refurbishment impossible. In addition to the problems with the bakelite, the contact bar for that terminal pair had severely worn burned and pitted contact points that could not be re-used.

As parts for the switches weren't available and I wanted a genuine Sipea replacement switch I hot wired the car for quite awhile until I found one.

[spider2081]

I have reworked about 4 different style Sipea switches used in Fiats and Lancia's The oldest ones have the electrical portion very similar to the Lada switches currently available. The had a tan material the contacts were fastened to and the electrical contacts were formed similar to the Lada. I have serviced a few that have a center rivet that passes through both switch sections. These have the 'INT" terminal on the outer perimeter. Then I have serviced the ones that have the "INT" terminals in the center of the switch. Some of these switches use a terminal #16 in addition to all the other terminals. I think these switches were used in the mid 70's to power the electric fuel pump in the "START" position of the ignition switch. I don't think I have seen any of these switches with the soldered pigtail. Then there are the switches with the soldered pigtails and 6 pin nylon connector that has 5 male pins in it. They also have the "INT" terminals in the center of the switch. I don't believe I have seen any soldered switches with the terminal 16 installed.
I have seen switch contacts burnt beyond ability to reuse. I have seen a difference in the brightness of the bakelite. Some seem a shiny bright black and some seem a dull black. Maybe the dull black is an indication of the heat they have been exposed to. I am now going to pay more attention to that.
A number have been missing the little pins that push the contacts open when they are not used. I think they have been rotated out of the mechanical metal housing and the pins pop out and are lost.
For sure your experience with your switch is worse then the ones I have worked on and I really appreciate you photos and comments.

[johndemar]

I got the switch apart and found the 50 terminal blackened, tarnished. I cleaned it off and it's nice and clean once again.
Some of the terminals, spade connectors were easy to remove, but about half are not. Is this common? How much force should be used in getting them out?
And because there are no dumb questions, I'm assuming your tapping the bakelite for threads and removing what's left of the brass rivets.
The pins kind of surprised me when I took it apart, but I found all of them.
Should I be concerned that a few of the spade terminals slide out pretty easily? Do I need to be concerned about securing them in place somehow?

Thanks for the lesson.

[spider2081]

Once the hollow rivets are removed from the bakelite their existing hole is proper size for 2-56 tap. I tap the half the pins are in. Then drill the other half so the body of a 2-56 screw passes through the hole. Counter sink the hole and use 2-56 counter sunk 1/2 long screws to reassemble. Rotate the white disk so the small rectangle opening points to the notch for the "key in switch" wires. Then place this half on bench with pins facing up. Place the half with contacts onto the half with pins aligning them with the wire slot and there is a notch and raised area. So it can only assemble in one position.
The wire spade connections should pull off with considerable force. if they can be removed too easily they could cause intermittent operation
The switch terminals can slide into the bakelite with little force. They get trapped in position when the 2 halves are properly assembled.