Found out new electrical info on my car and makes me think I should rewire

[scubachris]

My buddy talked to the guy who use to do the maintenance on my car. He told him that my car has always had electrical gremlins and that the PO only wanted to patch and never fix. So added to the problem of not having low beams, now my blowing motor/windshield wiper fuse blows. I suck at understanding this and need to get it fixed before my brake tag comes up. Also, this has taken a lot of time and money to fix things that weren't broken but operate every now and then. Like my radiator fan or trunk light.


This is what options I have found while searching this site:

1) Keep the wiring but find the problem. This would have to be down by a mechanic due to the fact that I keep finding disconnected wires and plugs not connected.

2) Find an old harness for my 79. My concern would be that I will end up with different set of problems.

3) Update the electrical system. Concern is the Painless install that someone did with the 10102 does not support back up lights or electric fuel pump. One of the members also mentioned Infinity Wiring Box. Would love more info.

This is pretty much were my life is. I have a feeling I am going to hemorrhage money anyway at this point but I want it fixed so I can continue on with fixing other things.

As always, thanks

[kmoses]

It's better to sort this out yourself and much cheeper. On my fiat I have found that it is almost always a bad ground or connection. Check out these two links;
http://www.how-to-build-hotrods.com/ele ... mlins.html
http://www.how-to-build-hotrods.com/hot-rod-wiring.html
there is alot of very good information and it is written as to be easy to understand (which helped me greatly).

[4uall]

DIY is always better than throwing $ away

Here are some awesome videos for the visual learner

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YxW6bc_gk8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgwR9sYN5f0

[spider2081]

I have difficulty with some of the logic I see in chat rooms. When someone does not feel comfortable enough with electrical circuits to troubleshoot them but believes it would be easier for them to install an entirely new aftermarket wire harness I say "what??? I counted the circuits off the fuse panel and there is about 40-50 circuits. Not all go through the fuse panel. So there are well over 100 electrical. connections. if 5 things in a car are not working correctly that is probably less than 5% of the electrical system in the car. For that some replace the entire system.
The other electrical issue for me is most Spider owners realize the mechanics in the car require routine maintenance and seem to forget the electrical system requires routine maintenance also.
If one has just purchased a 40 year old car I feel they should treat it as though it has been ill serviced. As many electrical connections as possible should be disassembled inspected cleaned and reassembled. If the history is not known I would would replace all the fuses with ones made of brass. Clean all the light sockets and bulb bases or replace all the bulbs with new. Check all the wiring in the engine compartment for tight connections and that the insulation is intact. Check back up light switch wires. And as other mentioned all the grounds need to be cleaned and remade. I like to assemble many of the electrical items light light bulbs with copper anti-seize grease. The container used to state enhances electrical connections. The last time I bought it the container did not mention anything about electrical conductivity.
For me part of the joy of owning and driving an old sports car is personally taking care of it. Part of that is learning by making mistakes.

[baltobernie]

I've done the Painless conversion, and I estimate that it would take the better part of 40 hours to remove the OE harness and install the Painless one. That's several thousand dollars if you're paying someone to do it.

2) Find an old harness for my 79. My concern would be that I will end up with different set of problems.

This would be my recommendation if you are outsourcing this job. You can also do it yourself, with lots of digital photos and plenty of masking tape, labeling everything as you go. Here you're not re-inventing the wheel. Perhaps 15-20 hours. Unmolested harnesses can be found; post on "Parts Wanted".

[4uall]

I have difficulty with some of the logic I see in chat rooms. When someone does not feel comfortable enough with electrical circuits to troubleshoot them but believes it would be easier for them to install an entirely new aftermarket wire harness I say "what??? I counted the circuits off the fuse panel and there is about 40-50 circuits. Not all go through the fuse panel. So there are well over 100 electrical. connections. if 5 things in a car are not working correctly that is probably less than 5% of the electrical system in the car. For that some replace the entire system.
The other electrical issue for me is most Spider owners realize the mechanics in the car require routine maintenance and seem to forget the electrical system requires routine maintenance also.
If one has just purchased a 40 year old car I feel they should treat it as though it has been ill serviced. As many electrical connections as possible should be disassembled inspected cleaned and reassembled. If the history is not known I would would replace all the fuses with ones made of brass. Clean all the light sockets and bulb bases or replace all the bulbs with new. Check all the wiring in the engine compartment for tight connections and that the insulation is intact. Check back up light switch wires. And as other mentioned all the grounds need to be cleaned and remade. I like to assemble many of the electrical items light light bulbs with copper anti-seize grease. The container used to state enhances electrical connections. The last time I bought it the container did not mention anything about electrical conductivity.
For me part of the joy of owning and driving an old sports car is personally taking care of it. Part of that is learning by making mistakes.

[scubachris]

Thank everyone for the responses. Appreciate the videos and "print" link.



It isn't that I don't want to know how to do it or I don't understand what it entails to own a old car. I do on both accounts. The facts are that I have no one to teach me and I am better at watching and learning, then putting my hands own it.

[dom]

It may seem overwhelming at first when you look at the wiring diagrams but keep at it. Before long you will figure it out and say wow that was a simple fix. All you need is a test light and some time. Just follow each circuit until you understand it then use the test light to find the bad connection. It's straight forward but does take some time. My car was an electrical mess but each problem turned out to be a simple fix....Fuse not making good contact at fuse box, bad ground, burned out bulb, wires reversed or broken wire.

[spider2081]

Trouble shooting problems takes time. "TIME" is an acronym for "This I must experience"
The wire diagrams for most Fiat Spiders can be found online at https://www.mirafiori.com/forum/ or http://fiat.artigue.com/
These chat rooms and Fiat Spider Group on Facebook are a great support for Spider owners. Also "you tube" has many videos that are helpfull.
I believe a short coming with many in chat rooms is some post a problem expecting another to tell them exactly what caused the problem. This eliminates trouble shooting. However often there is more than one issue that can cause similar symptoms so its best to develop a trouble shooting plan of specific tests.

Basic trouble shooting guide is:

Know what something is suppose to do.
Know what it is not doing
use reference material to enhance the understanding of how it works
make a list of possible causes specific to the issue
organize the list in a logical order of steps.
make first test in approximately the middle of the list.
If test is bad the work toward the beginning of list
If test is good move toward the end of list.
Being open minded to learning is one of God's most gracious gifts.

[baltobernie]

I sometimes forget that there are folks who would like to enjoy the experience of owning and driving a vintage automobile, but, for one reason or another, are unable to restore, repair, or ... yes ... even troubleshoot that car. They may not want to participate in this facet of ownership, or the lack of time, workspace, tools, etc. prohibit them from doing so.

This is not a scenario unique to vintage Fiat Spiders. I vividly remember a week-long rally we attended recently comprised of fifty cars; mostly vintage, but also some "modern exotics". During the week, I found exactly one other participant who did his own routine maintenance, forget about restoration and repair.

For me, the restoration and modification of my Spider has been the most satisfying portion of the vintage car experience. Next would be the camaraderie of local and faraway Spider enthusiasts. Third would be the actual driving of the car. I would be insulting other Spider owners if I demanded they prioritize their experience in step with mine.

[aj81spider]

Going back to your original question, and perhaps repeating a thing or two already said, but hopefully summarizing in one place.

Whether you are doing it yourself or hiring someone, fixing the existing harness is going to be the least expensive (in time or money) option. You should definitely download the wiring diagram, even if only to give to the person you hire to do it.

If you are going to rewire, using a Fiat harness will be less expensive (in time or money) than using the Painless harness. It will have the disadvantage of being 40 year old wire and connectors, but if done carefully can be as reliable as the new wire and connectors in the Painless kit. Putting in the replacement harness will require as much, if not more, knowledge and skill as repairing the existing harness, so don't do it because you think it will be easier or cheaper.

Using the Painless kit will require a deep understanding of the electrics of your car. I would only do this if you were interested in rewiring the car yourself as a learning/hobby experience (see below). If you are primarily interested in getting the car on the road as quickly as possible so you can drive it then I would focus on options 1 or 2.

If you are primarily interested in driving the car, and you are not comfortable with electrical work (and money is not an object) then you should hire someone to do the work - whatever option you choose. However finding a shop with good electrical knowledge who won't butcher things further may be a challenge.

For me, the Spider was an opportunity to learn about cars and so half of the hobby is the working on it. This has the unfortunate side effect of the car being off the road for long periods (like all summer long 2015) because I am not that good a mechanic and I work slowly. However I have learned a huge amount and the garage work for me is as gratifying as the driving. Owning a Spider has transformed me from someone who knew nothing about cars and was afraid to touch them to someone who knows dangerously little about cars and fearlessly tears into them with abandon (last summer's down time was pulling the head and replacing a bent valve).

Whatever path you chose there are a lot of people on here who can help with any specific problems you may have. I know this forum has bailed me out more times than I can count.

[scubachris]

Thanks everyone for the advice. Sorry it took so long to respond but I am busier than a cat trying to bury a turd on a marble floor.


Again, I want to stress that it isn't that I don't like working on my car but the simple fact that this is my primary driver, and I have no clue what I am doing.

So on that note, I took all the grounds off, polished them, and put the star washer back on. Next, I will tackle either the horn that will blow itself when it gets cold at night, the fan that isn't coming on, or the fuse for the blower motor that keeps blowing.