Thinking of going from f.i. to carb

ga.spyder · Post by **ga.spyder** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:28 am

Hey gang.If any of you have followed my issues on my beautiful 82,I wont bore you with details.I have good spark,the car starts and runs for a few seconds on the cold start valve and the shuts down.Yes..I have gone thru Brads guide.Yes..I have tested thru the Bosch trouble shooting guide.No..the car still doesnt run! I have not been able to identify the problem.I have missed a season of car shows,FFO,and wont be at Atl's Italian Car Day.
At this point I am either going to unload the car or go to a carb.I just want the car to run.I am not interested in enhanced performance at this point.What would I need to do to go with a single carb setup?Are there parts ,other than the carb and manifold, that I need? I assume that I would need a lower pressure fuel pump.Also,does anybody have a setup they want to sell.
It is hard for me to sell a family member,which the car has become.However,I cant stand to see it gathering dust in the corner of the garage.I would rather change the intake setup,and keep my car. Thanks for your thoughts or advice.
Craig

baltobernie · Post by **baltobernie** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:32 am

I've been following your post describing the trials and tribulations of your EFI. While I can only imagine the frustration of having a beautiful, non-driving car staring at you, I urge you to not abandon troubleshooting without taking the car to a bona fide expert. You're hampered somewhat by your location, but there must be someone in the Atlanta area with the experience and knowledge to fix this. It is, after all, a pretty simple design (which can also add to the frustration

). Maybe reach out to the VW club nearby, or another brand that used Jetronic; somewhere there's a veteran who can get your car sorted. And probably for less money than a swap.

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 9:40 am

I agree, the L-Jet was a common system and pretty easy to troubleshoot

jagonza · Post by **jagonza** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 12:46 pm

Could you go to Radio Shack and get some resistors and just manually wire inputs to the FI ECU, then see if it runs, then just undo the forced inputs one by one until you figure out which input is messing you up ??

there aren't many inputs (3-5) , should be straight forward. i am talking about doing it as a diagnostic, not to actually run the car that way.

also, before you give up, i would also try my favorite last resort - disassemble everything step by step, clean every bit of it -fuses/connections/valves/contacts/vacuum lines etc - then reassemble. that procedure has worked for me many times when i wasn't sure what was wrong. not very scientific but it does work very often.

i am in north atlanta how far are you ??

Odoyle · Post by **Odoyle** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 2:15 pm

My 83 was just doing the same thing your describing, started for a second or two then just shut off. Thought it was my coolant temp switch, but it wasn't, I did a couple simple things and she's running great now. I ended up cleaning the 2 ground wires that attach to the FI intake plenum, the ground wires in the trunk near the radio antenna, and the ground wire on the back of the exhaust cam tower. Also, clean contact with fuses in fuse box and take a look at the wires connecting to your ignition coil, by accident I had a yellow wire (with black insulation) on the positive side when it should have been on the negative side and after all of these minor adjustments, she runs! Hope it's something this simple.

lglade · Post by **lglade** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 3:05 pm

Odoyle wrote:My 83 was just doing the same thing your describing, started for a second or two then just shut off. Thought it was my coolant temp switch, but it wasn't, I did a couple simple things and she's running great now. I ended up cleaning the 2 ground wires that attach to the FI intake plenum, the ground wires in the trunk near the radio antenna, and the ground wire on the back of the exhaust cam tower. Also, clean contact with fuses in fuse box and take a look at the wires connecting to your ignition coil, by accident I had a yellow wire (with black insulation) on the positive side when it should have been on the negative side and after all of these minor adjustments, she runs! Hope it's something this simple.

It's almost always something simple like that, and finding it (finally) will give you tremendous satisfaction. Clean the grounds and check for loose connections. Rule out all of the easy stuff before focusing on individual FI components. My Spider has L-Jetronic, and so did a Porsche 914 that I had several years ago.

I experienced some real grief with the 914 (it was my only transportation) on two different occasions. One was related to a broken wire and the other to a big vacuum leak caused by a cracked rubber plenum. In both cases, it took lots of throttle to keep the engine from dying. The L-Jetronic generally works great and requires very little maintenance. If you're looking to keep your car close to stock, then it's pretty hard to beat it.

Anyway, don't give up. You'll find it if you keep looking.

txspider · Post by **txspider** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 5:42 pm

Make sure to check fuel pressure too (can borrow tester from O'reillys) if too low will give the same symptoms, also had a loose wire in the connector to the double relay that was barely touching the spade so intermittent start -no start

spider2081 · Post by **spider2081** » Wed Oct 12, 2016 11:16 pm

Craig would hate to see you give up.

You have a great car. Maybe put it aside for a bit and a new thought will come your way. Let me know if there is any way I could help. I could test some of your parts in my car to see it they work.

ga.spyder · Post by **ga.spyder** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 6:40 am

Thank you everybody for the encouragement and ideas.I really hate the idea of selling the car,but after missing an entire driving season the thought keeps crossing my mind

.I havent checked the fuel pressure and I will go ahead and do that.I have tested the f.i. components using the Bosch guide and they all seem ok. I do agree that is probably something simple,but after chasing it for months I am pretty discouraged.As baltobernie said,my location in the Georgia mtns(not a hotbed for Euro mechanics!) means I have had no help. This forum has been my 'go to guy'. If I cant figure this out,I will explore the carb option before giving up and selling.If I were to sell it,not running,someone will be getting a deal on one of the prettiest rust free Spiders anywhere!
Jagonza,I live in Blairsville, N.E. of Atlanta,in the mountains.Right on the North Carolina state line.

ez2wire · Post by **ez2wire** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:11 am

The L-Jet is actually a easier system than the carb once its running good.

My knowledge of it though comes from the Opel world. I have been into Mantas and GTs for about 30 years, and Fiats off and on for 5 ( Should say Fiat.. as its a friends I work on ).

But the L-Jet is a simple system no matter the brand. Often the biggest problems are the simplest. Vacuum leak or grounds.

Try starting it with the cold start injector removed. I have had my Opels not run due to a sticking Open cold start injector. They flood and then you cant get it to run anymore till later. Even had an engine fire due to a backfire caused by a cold start injector.

klweimer · Post by **klweimer** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 8:28 am

Craig,
I will take the contrary view here and say if you have had it with the FI, then go with a carb. What the heck, completely remove the FI system and sell it here on the forum.

I would go with a simple 2 barrel carb. As close to plug and play as you get. Manual choke, electric fuel pump. Tons of threads here on options. If you're in Georgia, you're not too far from Mathews Foreign Car Parts in Birmingham, AL. I bet he has the whole set up sitting there...
Kirk

ga.spyder · Post by **ga.spyder** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:40 am

I have always been a supporter of the f.i. Spiders.We used to have some good natured arguments on this forum 'f.i. vs. carb cars'. I have owned a carb'd Fiat and enjoyed that car also. If I owned the carb setup,I probably would have installed it already!

I have never had a minutes issue with the L-jet system until now.When the spark issue(since resolved) popped up,the f.i. system was working flawlessly.There has to be a tie in somewhere!
When the cold start valve is disconnected,the car will not start at all.It is starting and running for a couple seconds,on the cold start valve only.

dimitridodys · Post by **dimitridodys** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:42 pm

Craig,

I have sent you an email. I know someone in your vicinity that might be able to help.

Your car is very nice and it would be a shame to get rid of it.

ORFORD2004 · Post by **ORFORD2004** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 2:52 pm

You are almost there.
A: Do you have current to the injectors? Yes: Plugged injectors
No: Check wiring and ECU

carl · Post by **carl** » Thu Oct 13, 2016 5:32 pm

No one answered your question about installing carbs so I will. It's all bolt on, no mods needed. Get an intake manifold carb, throttle linkage from a 75-78 spider. Chuck the hi pressure FI fuel pump and get a nice electric carb pump with very low pressure (2.5-4 psi).
Pretty simple and I have done this mod on many spiders and Xs. You can make it even simpler if you go with a mechanical fuel pump but if you don't drive the spider very often, it's nice to have the electric pump priming the carb immediately.

I won't get involved with the injection versus carb battle but will say I am not a volt/ohm meter kind of guy and it's much easier for me to look for plugged jets then the misery you have been going though. A 2L spider with a nice 32ADF carb is a sweet running ride.

Thinking of going from f.i. to carb

Thinking of going from f.i. to carb

Re: Thinking of going from f.i. to carb

Re: Thinking of going from f.i. to carb

Re: Thinking of going from f.i. to carb

Re: Thinking of going from f.i. to carb

Re: Thinking of going from f.i. to carb

Re: Thinking of going from f.i. to carb

Re: Thinking of going from f.i. to carb

Re: Thinking of going from f.i. to carb

Re: Thinking of going from f.i. to carb

Re: Thinking of going from f.i. to carb

Re: Thinking of going from f.i. to carb

Re: Thinking of going from f.i. to carb

Re: Thinking of going from f.i. to carb

Re: Thinking of going from f.i. to carb