front and rear grease caps

[micbrody]

Before buying new bearings, I was thinking of just pulling grease cap; re-tightening the nut; packing with grease, and see how it goes.

I thought I would need new hub nut; but some other thread mentions how they reuse them. Is that possible if they were "staked" in?
Also, if I don't have a low measure torque wrench, is there a way to know how tight is tight enough and not too much?

Lastly, are the rear bearings greasable? The owners manual only mentions the front? Can/should I remove grease cap and tighten something??? if there is a nut to tighten??? and then re-grease?

[DieselSpider]

Before buying new bearings, I was thinking of just pulling grease cap; re-tightening the nut; packing with grease, and see how it goes.

I thought I would need new hub nut; but some other thread mentions how they reuse them. Is that possible if they were "staked" in?
Also, if I don't have a low measure torque wrench, is there a way to know how tight is tight enough and not too much?

Lastly, are the rear bearings greasable? The owners manual only mentions the front? Can/should I remove grease cap and tighten something??? if there is a nut to tighten??? and then re-grease?

You have to pull the caliper, remove the brake rotor, remove the dust cap, remove the stake-on hub nut, remove the outer wheel bearing, remove the hub and pull the inner wheel bearing seal before you can pack the inner and outer front wheel bearings with grease. The seal will need to be replaced as will the stake-on nut. The rear bearings have no dust caps as they are inside the rear axle and lubricated by the differential gear lube.

In this excellent video Dan Anderson of the Farm Journal demonstrates the correct way to hand pack a wheel bearing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YdhJUUxJPA

Beware of other videos that show someone simply smearing grease on the outside of the bearing, spinning it a bit and calling it packed. Those are not correct and should be disregarded.

If you do not cut the stake-on and it does not split when you take it off you may be able to re-use them however best practice is to replace them. The Spider does not use reverse threads on the drivers side wheel spindle so the nut while driving forward will tend to spin off the spindle on the drivers side if you do not stake them correctly or if the stake-on fails. The tendency on the passenger side will be for the spindle nut to tighten while driving forward if not staked properly or if the stake-on fails.

Its hard to describe how tight enough feels without a torque wrench but after doing it for over 45 years I tighten them until they feel reasonably snug, back off the spindle nut until it feels right and then check rotation and for wiggle. My Dad a Mechanical Engineer with a Masters in Engineering from MIT taught me this when I was about 8 years old and had me do it over and over until I got it right consistently by feel.

[bobplyler]

The Spider does not use reverse threads on the drivers side wheel spindle so the nut while driving forward will tend to spin off the spindle on the drivers side if you do not stake them correctly or if the stake-on fails.

It does use reverse threads.
http://www.autoricambi.us/product/BG8-4 ... eft-Front/
http://www.autoricambi.us/product/BG8-4 ... ght-Front/

[DieselSpider]

The Spider does not use reverse threads on the drivers side wheel spindle so the nut while driving forward will tend to spin off the spindle on the drivers side if you do not stake them correctly or if the stake-on fails.

It does use reverse threads.
http://www.autoricambi.us/product/BG8-4 ... eft-Front/
http://www.autoricambi.us/product/BG8-4 ... ght-Front/

Not on mine as the left side spins off with front rotation. Is it possible that someone put a right side spindle on the left?

[micbrody]

Can I buy the grease seals and stake in hub nuts at local chain auto supply (autozone, advanced auto, etc...)?



As a temporary fix, can I just tighten hub nut and apply grease to grease cap? (I am trying to figure out if the small amount of wiggle in wheel can explain noise when I go over bump?....maybe wheel shifts and hits brake pad causing caliper to clang

[DieselSpider]

Can I buy the grease seals and stake in hub nuts at local chain auto supply (autozone, advanced auto, etc...)?



As a temporary fix, can I just tighten hub nut and apply grease to grease cap? (I am trying to figure out if the small amount of wiggle in wheel can explain noise when I go over bump?....maybe wheel shifts and hits brake pad causing caliper to clang

Many parts for the cars aside from body parts are available from your local parts store.

Adding grease to the dust cap does little except for sling grease on your wheels. If its wiggling enough to cause the brakes to clang you've got more than a small amount of wiggle. You need to inspect the front suspension thoroughly to chase that down. It could simply be a loose sheet metal brake shield, failed rubber sway bar bushing or time to rebuild the front suspension.

Note that you do a small amount of damage to the threads on the spindle every time you move a stake-on nut once its been set so I am not a big fan of moving them for a look see. If the wheel is wiggling much more than 1/16" at the tire treads then your bearings may already be damaged and in need of replacing.

If there has been any signs of the bearings growling then the spindles themselves can be damaged and in need of replacement.

Tightening a bearing badly in need of grease can accelerate damage to the spindle too. I am not there so the safe answer is limit using the car until you have the new seals and stake-on nuts in hand but be prepared after inspection to have to replace the bearings and possibly the spindle.

[micbrody]

I did pull everything apart; cleaned the bearings; they seem fine. However, neither Autozone, Advanced Auto, or Oreilly have grease seal in stock. They all could order it but price was double and I had to pay for shipping; so I just ordered the grease seals and nuts from AR. I should have in 2 days

[DieselSpider]

I did pull everything apart; cleaned the bearings; they seem fine. However, neither Autozone, Advanced Auto, or Oreilly have grease seal in stock. They all could order it but price was double and I had to pay for shipping; so I just ordered the grease seals and nuts from AR. I should have in 2 days

Almost sounds like we're dealing with two different companies as Advance or Oreilly usually have the seals, brakes, starters, alternators and suspension parts within a half day of the stores at the local warehouse with no money down or charges for shipping unless getting them factory direct however most decent countermen can find the right part in an alternate but still major brand without an up-charge. Napa is the only one with the ridiculous shipping and handling fees around here. The again we usually have a few Spiders listed on Craigs list just about any day of the year so the demand for Spider parts in the Tampa Bay area is probably greater than in Indiana. How far is Spider Roadster from you. One would hope that with such a large custom shop that restores Spiders in the area that parts would be plentiful.

[v6spider]

The Spider does not use reverse threads on the drivers side wheel spindle so the nut while driving forward will tend to spin off the spindle on the drivers side if you do not stake them correctly or if the stake-on fails.

It does use reverse threads.
http://www.autoricambi.us/product/BG8-4 ... eft-Front/
http://www.autoricambi.us/product/BG8-4 ... ght-Front/

Not on mine as the left side spins off with front rotation. Is it possible that someone put a right side spindle on the left?

Not possible. .. They are drivers side and/or passenger side specific. Makes me think the PO cross threaded that side.. I'm thinking about modifying mine for a cotter pin setup.. That would put an end to the staking business..

Cheers!
Rob

[DieselSpider]

It does use reverse threads.
http://www.autoricambi.us/product/BG8-4 ... eft-Front/
http://www.autoricambi.us/product/BG8-4 ... ght-Front/

Not on mine as the left side spins off with front rotation. Is it possible that someone put a right side spindle on the left?

Not possible. .. They are drivers side and/or passenger side specific. Makes me think the PO cross threaded that side.. I'm thinking about modifying mine for a cotter pin setup.. That would put an end to the staking business..

Cheers!
Rob

I have been considering the same. I am not a big fan of the OTO nuts and would prefer a castle nut and an old fashioned jar of cotter pins available anywhere from Auto Parts to Hardware stores.

On the Franken Spider with the Diesel I feel that there may have been a few liberties taken with the front suspension to get the steering linkage to pass between the oil pan and bell housing. Yet it drives straight and the tires are wearing evenly since I had it aligned to the specs in the owners manual over a year ago.

[micbrody]

Diesel,

All three on the auto chains said they had to order it either from a store that had it; or directly from National Seal co. One of the stores (I don't remember which) said closest store with seal was in Nashville.
I did find a smaller, local company who could get it the next day for me; but I still needed new hub nuts; and the price with delivery was about the same from AR....and I was 100% certain that the AR part is the correct fit. Weather is bad here for next few days, so not missing any driving days.

I'm not surprised that parts up north not readily available; with our weather and such

For future reference for others on board: the part number that seems to correlate to seal is 472213 National. Picture looks different colors......either photo from bottom of seal; color has changed; or I have wrong part.

One last question: when I pulled the hubs and seals, one of them had an '0' ring (very thin diameter .... 1 mm thickness) between inner bearing and seal; other side had no ring. Do the seals have 'O' rings?

[micbrody]

I repacked bears with grease; installed; put hub bolts on (passenger side is lefty tighty; driver side is righty tighty ).
I did what I read: torqued bolt to 15-20lbft.; turned wheel; un-torqued . Repeated 5-6 times. Then I loosened; torqued to 5ftlb, followed loosening 30 deg. Right wheel had no play; left had extremely little play. I staked nut;put greased grease cap and drove.
Definitely a quieter drive; still some noise, but that just be another issue.
Today I jacked up front and tested wiggle at 6-12 o'clock. Passenger wheel had a tiny amount; driver wheel had slightly more than I liked . I read a lot of posts on how people didn't use torque wrench ; just did it by feel.
I unstaked nut; I had to tighten the bolts no more than the 30deg I had loosened them. I then re-staked. No wiggle. I am hoping with such tiny tightening that pre-load is essentially negligible.
I drove car; everything seems fine

[lglade]

I tried that whole procedure and felt like my wheels were loose when I was finished too. I learned to do it by feel as a kid, and the Fiat procedure just didn't seem to get me to that "sweet spot" where there's no drag nor wiggle. Against my better judgement, I left the nuts staked where Fiat said they should be, but I ended up taking my car into a suspension shop in Seattle for a wheel alignment. The very first thing they said was that there was too much play on my spindles. From now on, I'll stick with my instincts.

[DieselSpider]

I repacked bears with grease; installed; put hub bolts on (passenger side is lefty tighty; driver side is righty tighty ).
I did what I read: torqued bolt to 15-20lbft.; turned wheel; un-torqued . Repeated 5-6 times. Then I loosened; torqued to 5ftlb, followed loosening 30 deg. Right wheel had no play; left had extremely little play. I staked nut;put greased grease cap and drove.
Definitely a quieter drive; still some noise, but that just be another issue.
Today I jacked up front and tested wiggle at 6-12 o'clock. Passenger wheel had a tiny amount; driver wheel had slightly more than I liked . I read a lot of posts on how people didn't use torque wrench ; just did it by feel.
I unstaked nut; I had to tighten the bolts no more than the 30deg I had loosened them. I then re-staked. No wiggle. I am hoping with such tiny tightening that pre-load is essentially negligible.
I drove car; everything seems fine

Sometimes you have to just do it the old fashioned way. The torque wrench method is really for new bearings as far as I understand so as to initially seat them. I was taught on a repack of the original to tighten to snug and then back off till resistance was gone and then spin them back to lightly finger tight not hand tight with a tool.