Still not running

[rlux4]

I still can't get my car ('82 FI Spider) to come to life. I tracked the problem of no signal to the fuel pump and no pulse at the injectors to a bad dual relay, which I repaced. This relay was just replaced a couple of months ago, and I keep hearing that they rarely go out. Just my luck I guess. Anyway I now have fuel flow, and pulse at the injectors. I've checked my valve timing and distributor timing numerous times and they're on. I have spark at the plugs. And yet, the car won't start. A strange thing though is I took compression readings day before yesterday and they all read 120 to 130, now they all read 90 to 92.???
While I was broke down with the overheating problem in Oregon we put on a new head gasket and the block and head checked out good. Before the overheating (it never got above about 230) it always started and ran perfectly.
The grounds are all solid, particularly the two for the injectors on the aluminum air box on the intake manifold.
I'm at a loss.
It should start dog gone it!
Any ideas anyone?
BTW, I have a really good diagnostic set of pages for the electrics of the FI system, dual relay and ECU, courtesy of Kelly Dicker from Mira. (Bless his little heart) If anyone would like a copy, just let me know.
Thanks gang,
Ron

[mbouse]

i feel your pain , but since i have the good sense to own only carbureted Spiders.... and nothing newer than a 1980....

defense mechanism, since i HATE computers.

the replacement relay has been verified to be functioning? or are you just relying on the hearsay that they "rarely go out"?

[baltobernie]

I too have an old car, so I can't give you any specific advice.

But relays can certainly be tested on the bench. The compression change is puzzling, but shouldn't be a operational issue; mine has two cylinders in the 90's and it runs. Was one test performed with a warm engine, the other cold?

Any chance you can borrow some Known Good components from another late-model car?

[kristoj]

Ron,

Good to hear you have at least made some progress toward getting her running. If you have fuel and spark in the cylinder, but no combustion, the issue almost has to be related to igition timing or fuel mixture. One would think if it were mixture, you would at least get a sputter. Since you had the head off, I would be inclined to suspect timing. I have heard of the timing being off by 180 degrees. Are the plugs getting wet when you attempt to start?

BTW, I would love to get a copy of the FI manual you reference.

John

[rlux4]

Mike; Hey I went into construction at an early age, proof positive I don't have any sense. Thanks for not rubbing it in (too much)
John; I have a feeling you're right. There just aren't enough hours in the day lately. I get working on it and before I know it it's midnight. My bedtime is 9:00. I'm checking everything again, I'm on the phone to Ace a lot. I'm pretty sure I'm closing in on it. It's probably something I'm overlooking from lack of rest, age, and dead brain cells. Here's the pages:
http://www.wcmotors.com/personal/Fiat%2 ... agnostics/
Bernie; I used the relay diagnostic test on the newest new dual relay and it's OK, Part of that problem was the connector on the back of the ECU was not pressed in completely. I know, grounds, grounds, grounds.
Thanks gang, I'll let you know how it goes after I take it apart and put it back together this afternoon.
Ron

PS; When I get this fixed there's going to be a new Fiat FI expert in town!

[pope]

I hope you dont charge yourself by the hour. You'd go broke!

[kristoj]

Those us us who are discriminating enough to be in the '82 club can use a good FI expert!

[mbouse]

yeah, i dig that part about being the new expert ___ in town. everytime i meet a newbie with a question...i do my best to answer it. sometimes they say, "and then..." with a second question. Generally their questions are quite simple. give a couple of solid answers.... and they look at you like you are some kinda Fiat Overlord, all knowing...

the frustrating problems become the best known, easiest kept answers. You WILL be a F.I. eggspert by the time you get this solved.

[racydave]

Ron, Its easy thing to install the distributor 180 degrees off. The procedure for settin up the timing belt is with the dist pointing to no 4 cyl.

[rlux4]

Thanks Dave, that is a mistake I caught that the mechanic did. Thanks to Alvon. When I told him about pointing to #4 he said, can't be, every car points to #1. Oh well, now I know better.
I did find my compression problem. I was about 25-27° off on the cam timing. I lined them up correctly and now I have my 120-125 lbs on all 4. Hey, small steps are better than none.
I seem to be getting rummy, I was positive I triple checked them. Now I have my wife go out with me and check my checking. What a woman, best wife I ever had.
Still not running though, I'm on my way out to get new plugs.
More later.
Ron

[rlux4]

I now have definitive proof that God exists. My car started! Be still my heart.
I had 122-130 compression. The valve timing was right. I had fuel flowing. I had injectors pulsing. I had spark at the plugs. I thought I had the dist. timing on. I had it pointed to the nipple the #4 wire connects to...wrong. Something Ace said promted me to look again inside the dist. cap. The copper post isn't lined up with the outside nipple. There is actually a notch in the bottom of the distributor cap and a groove in the dist. body, lined these up and hit the key and it fired instantly. I still have very little power, but I think that's just a matter of fine tuning the dist. timing to 10° BTC.
Oh, and BTW I found an easy way to remove the crank pulley nut. Leave the 1-1/2" socket on the ratchet on the pulley and start the car. When you hear a loud CLUNK! the nut is off.
Gotta go, I have a running car to fine tune.
HOT DOG!
Thanks everyone.
Ron

[mbouse]

woo hoo

[kristoj]

Ron,

That is FANTASTIC! Congrats on getting her running again.

[pope]

Ron, better hurry and buy a lottery ticket

[racydave]

Oh, great. We can start picking on Ron again! What an adventure!