Ethanol damage-evidence

[So Cal Mark]

I've been hyping Carb Defender by Driven for awhile now to prevent ethanol damage, especially when storing cars for any length of time. Here are some pics of what ethanol can do to your carb;





of course this carb is junk. You might think it's water damage, but it only had fuel in it for a little over a year

[AriK]

Thanks for posting those pics. That's brutal! Many people are unconcerned or uninterested in this ethanol nonsense, so those pics are a great example. If you think that's bad have a look at what it does to rubber:




Inner lining collapses:


O-rings:


I have become an ethanol extremist (for my Spider) of zero ethanol since a couple of years now, at least if i can help it. I have recently updated all my rubber fuel lines, some hard lines, vapor lines as well. ran Carb Defender theough my fuel system on every ethanol fillup during my trip to FFO. Every gas station (except Sunoco 91) i ran into in the state of N.Y. and PA. was loaded with ethanol, at least 10%. Most important is to use it during storage when the fuel has a chance to sit and " work".

In Quebec we dont have alot of independent retailers so it's easy to remember which stations have E0, i have them listed in a prior post. What are the major retailers in U.S. that carry E0 fuel?

My question is since it only treats the metal and not the fuel, do we add Stabil as well during winter storage?
(i would assume yes)

[johndemar]

You can go to a site like Pure-Gas.org and see listings from the U.S. and Canada.

Posted with dated comments. Although with the price of E0, Defender seems a logical choice.

[DieselSpider]

You should see what Ethanol can do to foam air filters! Its not pretty when Ethonol fumes eat through a foam air filter so that it disintegrates and gets ingested along with all the dirt on it by an Italian Motorbike.

[btoran]

and for power boats with fiberglass fuel tanks, watch out. not only will delaminated crud find it's way through your fuel delivery system/carb/fi, etc, but you have the real threat of the fuel tank failing completely and the reulting catastrophy.

i like pop corn, corn pops, corn cob pipes, and distilled spirits made from corn. in my fuel, though, not so much. but good luck finding e0 in my neck of the woods.

[DieselSpider]

It also damages the rubber diaphragm in mechanical fuel pumps so that your engine oil can get diluted with gasoline. If your oil stays level and never goes down it may be a good idea to give it scrutiny for excessive fuel odors and thinning. Another sign will be excessive cranking leading you to believe that a fuel line is bad or the fuel bowl in the carb is leaking. Ethanol then damages the engine from the bottom when it comes in through the fuel pump.

[78Plum]

Are there any alternate parts that can be used to eliminate/reduce the damage done by Ethanol? I recently took off the fuel filler hose after some serious dry rot and I am wanting to replace it with something that will last forever (if possible) I know AR has an "Ethanol resistant" hose, but it is still a rubber hose. Does anyone know of any other options?

Thanks.

[baltobernie]

No, there aren't any. At least nothing that makes economic sense on a 35 year-old car.

Your carburetor-equipped Spider will be fine with neoprene fuel hose that meets SAE30R6 specifications. This hose has similar bending capabilities as the OE rubber stuff, and works with conventional hose clamps.

[Nanonevol]

We have about a dozen spots where it's available here in Massachusetts. I called one, a Sunoco, and was told that it is illegal to pump it so they sell it in 5 gallon cans - $71.50.

[divace73]

I went on a drive day once and thought I'd refill as I have a 1/4 tank left, we were in a small country town and started to pump then stopped immediately, all their pumps had Ethanol. Grrrr I asked the attended if they had ethanol free fuel which he replied it doesn't hurt the engine...yeah okay buy how does the fuel get to the engine????

In Australia we have E10 which has 10%, premium 95 (no ethanol) 95 octane, premium 98 (no ethanol), some cheeky station have tried the 100 octane which is the 98 plus ethanol... We also have e85 which is great if the car is set up for it, people who have their race cars set up for it love it.

Apparently though our octane ratings are different to the US rating....

Luckily I learn on my lawn mower about the effect of ethanol and only cost me a carb rebuilt kit, however it did stuff up my wipper snipper though....

[v6spider]

I'm happy to report that v6spider is ethanol compatible. Doesn't mean that I like the ethanol based fuels though.. My engine is high compression and needs high octane fuel.. 92 barely works but I've found a little Royal purple octane boost helps considerably.

Cheers!
Rob

[gandyrail]

I was asked to contact US Congress to oppose EPA upping the e content to 15%
it would be bad for our classic cars and the marine engines which cost a more than a few hard earned dollars.
The proposed sticker on the pump e15% is not enough .... I do not trust the retailers to regulate that I would always get e10 or e0 gas - putting e15 in my 2001 marine outboard could cost me over 10K in damage.
I am not sure where the EPA are in this cycle it seams to come back around every couple years recently

[Turbofiat124]

I had been running E10 in my 80 FI Spider, 68 Ford and my 87 Yugo for years with no ill effects. The Fairlane is probably the least driven. The Yugo has been out of service off an on for about three years for one reason or another. One year it was the turbo, right now it needs new wheel bearings and tie rod ends.

I'm not a proponent of E10 by any means. I run 100% gas in all of my small engines including my 2 cycle Trabant 601. I'm concerned about how well oil mixes with alcohol. Particularly anything that is either 2 cycle but also gravity feed like my lawnmowers even though they are rated for E10.

I was driving across the state line to Virginia to buy 100% gas because it was cheaper than in Tennessee but found a closer station for about the same price. But they only sell it in 87 octane. I need (or think I need) 93 octane for my turbocharged Fiat Spider and Yugo.

Since then I've been buying 100% gas for my 68 Fairlane and my Subaru from this station. I do believe my Subaru seems to run better on 100% gas. After E10 was introduced my Subaru developed this bucking in 3rd gear near 3000 rpms. I changed the fuel filter, nothing.

The only thing I have ever seen happen from E10 is stuck float valves on gravity feed fuel systems. Dad's 58 Ford tractor, his pressure washer, lawnmowers, etc. Right now I have a Yardman push mower he gave me that won't start probably due to E10 evaporation. Usually all it takes is disconnecting the fuel hose and dropping the fuel bowl and spraying carb cleaner through the fuel inlet port and working the float valve with my finger. But still a hassle.

If the tank is allowed to get low and all the fuel evaporates, it leaves this gummy residue that clogs up the float valve. I on the other hand keep all of my tanks topped off. Where with his stuff, he may let the tank sit almost empty and by spring what was in the tank has evaporated.

Before ethanol I needed a push mower and dug an old push mower out from underneath a lumber pile in my dad's barn that had not ran in about 10 years. I put gas in it, and it fired right up.

I have been using Stabil ethanol treatment. But have wondered if this stuff really works. It supposed to keep the alcohol/water suspended in gasoline instead of sinking to the bottom of the fuel tank but have never tested it to see if it really works. Even if it does, would it still prevent alcohol from attacking rubber and aluminum?

[mattyd7]

Boating magazine did a test a few years ago on different fuel stabilizers in e10 to test if it actually helps prevent phase separation and found that they do in fact allow the gas to absorb more water than untreated gas. So for phase separation, it does appear they do work and are useful. Unfortunately they did not test anything about how it helps prevent damage to rubber.

http://www.boatingmag.com/gear/boatingl ... tabilizers

[DieselSpider]

You might be amazed at what it does to the impellers in an electric fuel pump. Many think that they had to replace their in-tank pumps because the inlet was clogged however many times its because the fuel pump impeller has swollen and shredded from ethanol damage. In 2010-12 there were a number of name brand OEM fuel pumps that had to be replace at $350 plus labor on each car, truck, motorcycle, etc that they were installed in. It was not published as a recall and went out as a service bulletin about vehicles stalling when warmed up so most folks were totally unaware. The pumps are still out there in the supply line and can "accidentally" get sold to you.