clutch cable stretching?

[timspider]

I'm at what I think is my last step prior to an actual test drive after 10 months on blocks. She's on all 4 feet today for the first time in a while and the engine started right up last night, held low idle well, revved well, and when I tried the morning start this morning, which used to be minutes of dry cranking due to fuel going back to the tank, she started and idled like a new car. So she is liking the new check valves and my positioning of them (once I go them tightened to stop dripping fuel).
So now to hook up the clutch cable to the freshly rebuilt transmission.
After some different configurations of spring and cable, I have one that seems to work in that it pulls the cable and the forked lever retracts when the pedal retracts.
I can tell where the lever needs to go to first touch the clutch and then to press on it, and it is way down the threaded shafter on the cable, like it wants to seat all the way down at the end of the threads.
The top part at the pedal looks solid and travels well.
The bottom part is situated through the bell housing, seems to be seated correctly, and seems to translate the same amount of travel that is generated at the top.
I'm hoping there was not supposed to be some kind of spacer before I put the new forked lever and throwout bearing in. It looked very straight forward the way that bearing engages in the lever, and then bow the lever snaps onto the pivot ball.
It all worked fine and looked fine when I installed it.
Now I'm thinking maybe I missed a spacer that should have been in there.
The forked lever seems to travel pretty forward before any contact with the clutch.
Could it be as simple as the cable stretching?
Of do I have to remove this transmission AGAIN to re do the clutch set up?
Or ANY idea that may help.

[timspider]

man I wish I had a person here who knew how to get me past this one very annoying issue after all these months and expense.
rainy days and mondays don't get me down- but this car does
I cann't get this clutch to work. damn it

[bobplyler]

Could be a problem where the clutch cable goes through the firewall. A known weak point that can cause similar symptons.

[timspider]

firewall looks solid and the end that seats in the pedal is firm and pulling the cable.
has anyone had an issue with these cables stretching?
I've read many posts about them snapping, but not stretching.
I'm getting the feeling that when this encounters the resistance of the plate, the cable just stretches.
I've got a new cable on the way but just wondering if any of you who have had your clutch cable snap noticed that it seemed to stretch a bit before completely failing?

[timspider]

more adjustment- spaced the cable so it sits higher at the bell housing, creating a little more space, which, by feel, places the forked lever very close to the plate. cable still seems to pull but no disengagement at all- none
this is exactly what was happening last Spring when I started this attempted fix.

It is really annoying to look at the simplicity of this clutch mechanism and to not be able to get it to work at all, given that the entire clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing, and flywheel are all new.
Starting to see the wisdom in all the warnings about this car from well meaning friends.
Maybe they were right.

[seabeelt]

How long has the car sat? Sometimes the clutch will stick to the pressure plate (rust) just from normal ambient moisture. Happend right after I bought the 71 and pulled the head. Car sat in the garage for 6 months and then the clutch wouldnt work until i put it in gear and then bumped the car to torque the pressure plate against the clutch. Came right loose, but clutch would not depress properly with the pedal until I did this. Not saying this is your issue, but just a thought.

[timspider]

thank you for that. I'll figure it in with my next round of attempts to get this damn thing rolling under it's own power

Does any one have an image of exactly how the cable is supposed to seat at the top of the pedal in the cabin?

I've read that it is hard to get seated properly so sometimes people settle for getting in in wrong, but since I've never seen exactly what right looks like, I don't know what I'm looking at.

Any images of the cable, inside the firewall, connected to the the clutch pedal mechanism, are deeply appreciated.
thank you

[azruss]

Hang in there Tim. I can remember feeling the same frustrations the first time i tried working on these cars as a newbie. If the clutch is not releasing and you can see the cable pulling the arm that goes into the tranny, then your issue is either a stuck clutch plate as mentioned above, or the actuator arm going into the tranny is not mounted on the pivot ball correctly or it is cracked at the throw-out bearing. It is easy for the arm to separate from the pivot ball during installation. On to the next question. these cables will stretch just before they break, but not in the way you are thinking. The top of the clutch pedal has a hook with a split in the middle. to see what this is like, take your 1st 2 fingers on your hand and extend them into a narrow V. now curl them into your palm. This is what the hook looks like. The cable has a Tee on the end. The cable slides between the gap in the hook and the Tee rests in the hook. There are 2 issues here. first, the hook is prone to cracking and will bend the hook to one side, pinching the cable. This will cause the cable to prematurely break. If this is what is happening, you would see very little movement on the other end of the cable. 2nd, the cable Tee is very difficult to get into the hook. The result, again, is premature cable breaking. So, before you install the new cable, check the top of the pedal for a big crack, and grease the hook. Installing the hook onto the pedal is a nasty job as it is mostly done by feel.

[76was124]

Your problem sounded familiar, so I found this old post.
http://www.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27619

Which I realize is your post from last year before the transmission rebuild. However, it wouldn't hurt to confirm the ball pivot is on correctly as Azruss mentioned. Don't worry, trans removal is not required even if it the yoke is disconnected.

Take the cable off, and see if the lever is sloppy up and down. Be somewhat careful you don't cause it to disconnect, but there should be very little up down, vs. fore and aft travel.

If the cable strokes a few inches when the clutch pedal travels, you are probably connected okay at the pedal. See the video.http://s944.photobucket.com/user/76was1 ... 0.mp4.html

[76was124]

Looking at your old video (before the rebuild) it doesn't look like you would be at the end of the cable adjustment before the throw out bearing began contacting the clutch fingers?
http://s867.photobucket.com/user/timspi ... 1.mp4.html.

Is it the same now?

Also, I might have missed if you said this this along the way, but when you had the trans out, did you have the clutched inspected or replaced...all the fingers in tact, adequate friction surface remaining?

[timspider]

new OEM clutch, new lightened flywheel, new throwout bearing, rebuilt tranny, lever seems to be seated ok.
I'm leaning toward the top of the pedal mechanism being bent, which i have not been able to confirm since I can't get a visual on it.
trying again today, we'll see what happens. I'll post results- hoping for good ones

[timspider]

will removing the dash give me access to the top of the clutch pedal?
what do i have to do now to simply see the top of this pedal?
I suspect it is bent at the top but need to access to confirm and fix- how in the heck do I do this?

[narfire]

Tim, will these help?





When attached to the fork, I found my adjustment nut is close to half way down the threaded shaft for the clutch to have about 1" of travel before engagement.
Chris

[timspider]

yes, narfire, thank you that does help. Just got a little better look at it in the car as well. It's hard to tell if it's bending where the cable hooks on. It looks solid- good movement, pulls the lever below forward.
I'm starting to thing I did something wrong with the clutch. I just don't get why I can't get this to disengage. It just won't work.
Engine now running beautifully.
Was able to start it in first yesterday and take a couple trips around the barn, but not able to get it out of gear, even with clutch down to the floor.
I don't want to start replacing clutch pedal components if this is just a bad clutch install.
Probably need to flatbed this to a pro, when I get a budget to do that. Just blew all my dough on rebuilding the tranny, new clutch, new flywheel, new fuel line parts, etc. etc.
Apparently I need to start saving up again as a couple thousand dollars and almost a year of my time has gotten me nowhere.

[aj81spider]

Before tossing in the towel here's what I would do (with the caveat that I'm no expert).

From what is written I don't think you've isolated where the problem is yet. I would have someone press the clutch pedal and see how much travel that causes in the lever. Someone here (I'll do it if I get time tonight) should be able to tell you the amount of travel a working clutch cable causes.

If you have less travel than that then the problem is that you are not getting enough movement in the cable. That would be because of things like the pedal, the firewall cracking, etc. This will spawn a whole set of follow-up investigations.

If you have more travel than that then your cable/pedal is fine and the problem is that the travel in the lever is not causing the clutch to disengage. This could be because the lever is unseated, or because the clutch has rusted to the flywheel. That will spawn a different set of follow-up investigations.

I think you are not yet at the point where you need to pull the transmission.

I feel your pain - I've walked away from my car lots of times and let it sit for a week or two until I could build the strength up to address it again. I also know how frustrating it is not to have the car running (mine has not yet driven this year!).

But it is fixable and with the help here I'm sure you can get through it.

And remember, when any of us give up it weakens the Fiat force just a tiny bit!