transmission install woes

[timspider]

I know there is a lot on transmissions here as I've been through most of it more than once.
So I'm mostly just thinking out loud over here, just in case someone has some kind of magic workaround solution to shoe horning a transmission back in.
I have a low level transmission lift which also gives me some upward tilt should I need it, which I stupidly thought would make this job a breeze.
Here's where I'm at.
new flywheel and clutch are in- when I try to lift the transmission straight from underneath, the back end of the shifter housing can't clear the opening. I can get the actual shifter through, but not that square plate on the back.
If I angle the rear end up I can get the square back end of the housing past this point, but then the top of the bell housing wedges against the clutch when I start lifting the front.
I've wiggled and pleaded. Didn't work.
I had the motor lifted a few inches to do the oil pan a few weeks ago. I think if it was still in that posture, I might be able to slip the transmission by but not sure and frankly not eager to remove the exhaust, radiator and heater hoses again.
It looks like if I took the whole shifter housing off, this would go in easily, but then I'd have to get that back on through that small opening in the top of the tunnel and that looks like it would be anywhere from hard to impossible.
As I'm typing, it occurs to me that tipping the front up first and getting the bell housing past the collision points on the clutch MIGHT work.
Has anyone done it that way?
Or does anyone have better ideas?
I am very close to a road test once this gets bolted back on and it's been almost a year.
Patience. Something I've been working on for about a year now, with mixed results.

[timspider]

Tried the other way, front end up a little, cleared the clutch stuff, but even with the input shaft against the clutch, with no further forward movement possible, the square back end of the shifter housing does not get past it's opening.
I'm starting to think i have to rip off this shifter housing, make a new gasket and get the stuff set up in the cabin for re install from the car.
While it looks like there would not be enough room to put this in with the tranny fully raised- I'm thinking I could raise it to within a few inches, leaving a little room to work through the top opening in the tranny tunnel. But then getting that shifter back on seems like it might require removing the giubo for straight access from underneath.

If anybody has any other way, PLEASE stop me from tearing this apart as I'm getting close to the last straw with this car.
did I mention patience? I think I meant pissed.

[wizard124]

I installed my engine and transmission as a single unit. I had the shifter removed. Once in place, I re-installed the stick into into the housing.

Also, as I recall, I had to fuss with the motor mounts during the installation. Can you loosen yours and wiggle the block forward a bit for clearance?

[timspider]

yes i can remove the motor mounts top nut pretty easily and I'll try it. I'm thinking to really allow some wiggle for the engine block, I would need to detach the exhaust manifold as well, which took me the better part of a morning to get back on a few weeks back.
question, you were able to install the shifter into the housing with the transmission in- was the giubo on do you remember?
Were you able to install the shifter with the giubo on?
I'm leaning towards removing the whole shifter housing and trying to get it back on from inside the car, but if taking the exhaust off again and loosening motor mounts will let me wiggle forward enough to get the whole tranny unit in as is, that may be the call
If any of this is idiocy, please let me know. I'm slipping into zombie mode.

[azruss]

When I do mine, I loosen the bottom nuts on the motor mounts and jack up the front of the motor until contact with firewall or wiring harness. I remove the shift extension and then pull the rest of the shifter from underneath. be careful when pulling off the triangle plate as springs and other stuff will come out. With this stuff out of the way, the back of the tranny should be low enough to get the input shaft in through the pressure plate and the clutch. the deeper it gets in, the more room you buy. Did you line up the clutch with an alignment tool. make sure you leave the tranny in gear so you can rotate the input shaft from the back to get it to line up with the splines. not an easy job as the front of the tranny needs to be well centered as you raise the back. you can use a floor jack to support the weight and then work the alignment. Check the splines on the input shaft for burrs as that will make the job impossible.

[So Cal Mark]

you have to remove the shifter, It can be installed after the trans is in

[timspider]

input shaft is new. transmission rebuilt by Csaba. Taking the exhaust off today. I can get the shifter extension through without an issue. It's the back plate of the shifter housing that is my collision point.
taking the bottom motor mount nuts off is something I haven't done yet- will give it a try today. probably more tilt that way. thanks for that.
Question on the triangular plate at bottom of shifter. Manual shows a single gasket but it seems like it could use one on both sides as it looks to me like oil will get under the shifter and pool in that little area above the triangle. It doesn't seem like a good place to have plastic to metal with no gasket.
I cut 2 gaskets from a gasket sheet to fit on top and bottom of the black plastic piece and it seems to seat nicely.
Is this a no no? Wouldn't one gasket at this joint be a guaranteed leak?
Just want this part correct before trudging on.
thanks everyone

[76was124]

If I remember correctly, having the back end of the car higher than the front helps the engine sag on the back end more. Slide the input shaft in, bolt it, raise it up through the hole. Don't hang it on the shaft though, use your trans jack to carry the weight until bolted. You'll want to lower the back end again when you try to connect the drive shaft

[timspider]

got more engine tilt. heater hoses now leaking. transmission still won't fit.
no more questions- walking away for a bit- far too frustrating

[timspider]

may be time to admit I don't have the required time, tools, or intelligence to own this car.
moving on now.

[azruss]

It sounds like the tranny input shaft is hanging up on something not allowing the tranny to get close enough to the engine to clear the back. Might also want to find a Fiatista in your area that can come and help. Normally only requires a beer or two for incentive.

[76was124]

may be time to admit I don't have the required time, tools, or intelligence to own this car.
moving on now.

We've all been there, your plenty skilled enough if you've gotten this far. Trust me , you willthoroughly enjoy it when you fire it up and drive it down the street and will quickly forget the frustrations and take on the next one.

[JerryH]

Nice encouraging words 76was124--and I agree. It's simply a puzzle waiting for a solution. Once you're driving you'll find it was worth it.

[timspider]

thank you guys. needed a few head clearing days. today, the longest transmission timeline for installation continues, and there is some good news and yet another question.
took the puzzle approach. stood back and looked at everything, the angles of motor, car, and tranny, the potential contact points, all tools and extensions organized within arms reach.
got the rear end of the car a little higher and on firmer footing. and to my surprise, the puzzle came together. I now have 3 of the 4 tranny bolts on and am confident that with a little help from above by my girlfriend, we will get the 4th today.
Here's my question: on the lower bolts, one is longer (on mine). Which side does the longer one go on? Does it matter?
I currently have the longer one threaded through on the drivers side with the short one of the passenger side, so there is about an inch of threaded post coming through on the drivers side. It doesn't look like it would interfere with anything, but I don't have the starter on yet, although that is above this.
Does this matter? Do I need a nut on the end of that longer bolt?
If so, it looks like that long bolt might want to reside on the passenger side?
My manual doesn't show the bolt difference, so maybe this is just a longer bolt used the last time the tranny came out?
Thanks for the encouragement and the invaluable knowledge.

[76was124]

Short bolts should be for the top two bell housing holes, Long ones on the bottom.

Do an image search for "fiat spider transmission" on the Internet and you'll see the bell housing has long bosses for the bottom two bolts.

I.e. http://www.vickauto.com/newstore/index. ... e&pID=3174