Crossmember shim vs lower arm shim.

[tomlebatisseur]

Sorry for my english...
My car a 124 spider 2000 from 1980 has a little problem. (i m a newbie, i ve the car since november 2014)
may car pull left. i ve done a lot of thing. but recently i ve seen something strange

At left I've 1cm shim to each bolt fixing lower control Arm and no Crossmember shim

But to the right i ve a 7-8 mm crossmember shim an no shim to the lower control arm.

The rule for the shim is to put equal shim on left an right at the crossmember?

and the same question for the shim to lower control arm.?

is it wrong to mix shims to crossmember and on Lower Arm?

[RRoller123]

The shims do not need to necessarily match, they are chosen to correct alignment. Someone more knowledgeable than I can comment upon whether the shim sizes you mention are normal.

The pull is more likely the result of being out of alignment in its present condition, or if pulling while braking, a brake problem.

Pete

[vandor]

You need to have a shop check the alignment of the front wheels, only then will you know if it is correct or not.
The pulling could be the brakes, it is not uncommon.

[tomlebatisseur]

thanks....

The problem is present in normal condition when driving ...but the problem increase when braking.

with my friend,a retired mecanic, we have adjust alignement with some improvement. but without all satisfaction.

If i remove all shims on the lower arm (at left) the car is right but the camber is very negative...very strange...

[azruss]

Sounds like you have the same problem I have. Previous damage left the PS side with negative camber and no shims. The problem is any adjustment you make increases the negative camber. I ended up shimming the crossmember at the right frame tube. Got it close enough to do a decent adjust. couldn't get the caster right, so ended with a compromise. If you haven't done much body work yet, I would take the car to a frame shop and see if they can pull the negative caster out, so you have some adjustment.

[RoyBatty]

Look to see if you have a cracked crossmember

[tomlebatisseur]

your are maybe right Azruss.... a previous damage.....

Frame shop...
compromise...

I must find a solution... cause i'm fall in love of my car...
I ve already make a new paint (but original)

http://www.belin.be/twg19/index.php?twg ... BaladeFiat

[bobplyler]

But to the right i ve a 7-8 mm crossmember shim an no shim to the lower control arm.

The FI crossmember has a shim as part of the crossmember. It matches a notch in the frame. Replacement crossmembers come with a shim that can be left off for a non-FI car.

[spider2081]

Have you tried to get a 4 wheel alignment done on the car???

[tomlebatisseur]

Have you tried to get a 4 wheel alignment done on the car???

Not in a specialized shop but with my mechanic, who is a good one but....maybe is there something we miss.

Thanks for your explanation "bobplyper"....my car is a 1980 Fuel injected (FI) (i didn't understood this abreviation...)

I hesitated to go in a specialized shop cause i will maybe change the bushing at lower and upper arm.
For my mechanic,it s may be a cause of left pulling accentuation when i brake...

Is it possible to adjust rear alignment?

[spider2081]

I don't know if the Spider has rear wheel adjustment. I have my cars aligned at a body shop. He explained that the front alignment should be completed with the rear wheels as the reference. I think this video explains why. So all four wheels should be part of a front wheel alignment. I personally don't know much about alignments.

https://vimeo.com/20213874

I was thinking if your car passed an alignment check however you shims are must be correct for you car.

[narfire]

Just remember all the ball joints and tie rod ends have to be in good shape before alignment is done.

[vandor]

> I don't know if the Spider has rear wheel adjustment.

No.

> He explained that the front alignment should be completed with the rear wheels as the reference.

It's the only way to make sure that the steering wheel will be straight after the alignment. I think it's the way it's normally done.

[DieselSpider]

A laden thrust line alingment is the preferred method however too many small shops just do a toe in, caster and camber alignment based on a front wheel only jig. Many forget to do it with the car laden.

[RRoller123]

How do they do the laden? They don't have 2 employees standing around doing nothing, available to sit in the seats for the time it takes. Do they have weighted sand bags or something? (seriously, not kidding, I am curious about this.)