new brake system

[BabyBlue2000]

Hello from sunny PA : )
Have had Fiat Spider 2000 1979, baby blue.
Have had brake issues a bit, thought it was the boost. Replaced the master cylinder, was original, as are the brake lines. Was pulling hard to the right, then there were none on main street at a red light ! Down shifted and pulled across traffic into parking lot with white knuckles.
Took it to a foreign auto mechanic. He had ended up breaking off the bleeder valve on the front passenger caliper. So he welded it shut.
While driving a few months later, it started to pull to the left, then again, no brakes.
Thought I should just over haul the whole system. New Master, calipers, lines and steel braided hoses.
Have the front in now to the back.... the compensator mess....
Can I simply just bypass the whole compensator without the hose and hook the hoses directly to the calipers with out even touching the compensator at all? What would the danger of that be?

Thank You Kindly !

[rlux4]

Hi, and welcome aboard BabyBlue.
This question has come up before. Yes, it's been done pretty frequently with no ill effects. The compensator's function is to even out the braking action during panic stops. Those who have bypassed it report that they never noticed a difference. You can do a search on "compensator" with the button just under the orange Spider at the top right of the main page to read more about it.
To quote a Fiat sage: "No compensator? No problem." (credit to SoCal Mark)
Ron

[mbouse]

not to discredit mark, but the Fiat engineers spent considerable time in developing the compensator valve. it is there for a reason.

not to discredit ron, but we have few reports of folks who PROPERLY were bleeding their brake systems and experienced no change in affect when omitting the compensator from the system. were they using the correct procedure before they bypassed the valve?

do you know the correct method to bleed the back brakes? I certainly would not take that car back to that "foreign car" mechanic. that he calls himself a mechanic is a sick joke in itself. welding the bleeder valve shut? that is sheer lunacy, and I would be reporting him to the state DOT if i had all the facts.

brake maintenance is a vitally important item to learn how to properly perform. that you "white knuckled" across lanes of traffic emphasizes what NOT to do. i suggest learning how, and buying the proper tools to perform this yourself. it is not rocket science; but, certainly safer than taking your brake job to a guy that obliterates bleed screws and charges you money to do so.

Don't skimp on safety! My grand kids may be in the oncoming car....

and, sorry.... down from the soap box to welcome you to the site.

[So Cal Mark]

once the car is lowered (as many Spiders have been), the compensator is a moot point.

[racydave]

Whatever the "engineers" were trying to accomplish, and the operation without is a moot point. Im still a certified ASE brake tech. I bled mine correctly, and still removed mine, and all that extra brake line crap also. And I DO take auto BRAKING very seriously. If its got "go", it needs the "whoa".

[rlux4]

Mike, I hear what you're saying, but you have to consider that these were engineered a long time ago. Engineering calcs don't change, but technology does. I've seen a lot on engineered items that looked good on paper, and sucked in the real world useage. My feeling is that because something works as a component of a system, doesn't necessarily mean the system won't work just as well without that component. In real world useage, enough time has passed that if eliminating the compensator caused a problem we'd certainly know about it by now.
Ron

[mbouse]

i don't mean to argue. however, brakes are a serious issue and i believe that some of us have inferred other things into the discussion, and forgotten some stated facts. based on the facts in front of us, i do not advocate removal of the compensator from this vehicle at this time. ESPECIALLY by the mechanic charged with the previous brake work.

until the compensator has been proven to cause issues, why promote its extraction? "take the appendix out Doctor, this man is complaining of a belly ache."

rash behavior.

Based on the facts presented at this time, leaving the compensator in this particular car will cause what harm? specifically..based on the facts already presented? don't infer that the car has been lowered, that was not given in the original post.

the answer to the original question in the original post is "YES". however, that answer does not necessarily solve the issue. I bet lunch that the mere removal of the compensator WILL NOT resolve this man's brake problems.

did anyone attempt to find out if there are any fluid leaks? are any of the rubber hoses collapsing? are any of the caliper pistons frozen? how about the inability to bleed one of the calipers...anybody take that into consideration?

[CaptEd]

My brake story...
OK guys heres what happened to me.
The f 78 spider I purchased had no brake peddel at all from sitting in a garage for a while. I trailered it home and started working on the brakes.
I started on the rear brakes, however the bleeders were frozen, so I moved to the front brakes and bled them just so I had some sort of peddel.
I just wanted to run the car a little as it has not been run in a while.
I live out in the woods (flat land) so I was not to worried about running around the block a few times. about the 4th trip around the block the rear brakes started to lock up. the more I drove the car the more the rear brakes heated up and locked.
I had to park the car for a few hours to let them cool so they would unlock.
I do not know what caused the problem as the rear brakes should have had no pressure at all.
anyhow as the car is new to me and the brake system is ? old, and the most important part of the car.. I plan on replaceing the entire system.

[pope]

Sounds like you rode the car with the parking brake on.

[racydave]

My rear brakes locked uo before I dollied it home, and I had to turn it around to pull. The whole system was old, and some bleeders broke off. I replaces the M\C, all hoses, and calipers. My rear valve broke down on me when I was in Pontiac Michigan, and I drove home on front brakes only.

[CaptEd]

Sounds like you rode the car with the parking brake on.

NO WAY... I am a little more mechanically minded than that. That was the first thing I checked when the brakes locked. even disconnected it at the seen.

[So Cal Mark]

if the rear calipers are sticking, LOTS of heat will be generated when driving and the expansion of various parts will cause them to lock up.

Mike-
I find it fascinating you can make recommendations about something you've never tried. If you had bypassed a compensator and had trouble or experienced lesser braking, then I could understand your statements. Every owner I've talked to that bypassed the compensator has commented about how much better the car stops. Now I doubt that they've done any scientific testing or measured stopping distance, but they can't all be wrong about seat of the pants feel.