starter won't turn over engine... need help with diagnosis

[o0sara0o]

A father-daughter odyssey. It's been a while since we've posted here. Finally back to the 79 Spider. My girl spent last year doing body work, and now we're ready to get this thing on the road.

Problem: starter is sluggish, barely able to turn over engine. Tried jumper cables with another running vehicle. Same thing. Tried improving ground connection: jumped vehicle with negative connected directly to engine block. Same thing. Made the fateful decision to pull the starter out. Several hours later, I came inside to check the archives of this forum. Ah, OK--we're not total imbeciles. This starter is HARD to get out.

Tried all the suggestions we could find: removed rad, oil filter, fuel pump, alternator. Still can't get at the third bolt. Only just barely able to touch it, can't see at all. It feels like it's head-backward, that is, we'd have to get the wrench or socket on from tranny side--for hours I thought were trying to access it from the front. Have now all but given up, considered removing intake manifold but before we do that major job, we could really use some advice.

A year ago, when we first had this trouble, we tried push-starting the car. Girl behind wheel, me pushing (how else?) When she popped the clutch, the car all but slammed to a stop. Almost like the engine was seized. But it DID turn over, only with huge effort from me, and I didn't have enough juice to get it going. In hindsight, would you all agree that our problem is NOT with the starter, but with something in the engine? Yes, it had been sitting for months since we had last run it (drove it around the block, actually.) What could have happened that would cause the engine to be almost impossible to turn over? I figured a turn or two would loosen it up, but that didn't happen.

Any insight would be MOST appreciated. Thank you.

[So Cal Mark]

boy, you've listed several issues to deal with. First, I'd turn the engine over by hand to determine if you have a seized engine or an interference issue. If it turns freely, get a voltmeter and see what voltage you're getting to the starter under load. If voltage is adequate and you decide to remove the starter, all 3 bolts come in from the backside. To reach the top bolt you need a 36" extension with a swivel socket.

[RRoller123]

Note: Sparks plugs out for that turning over and it should rotate pretty freely.

[redcars]

For the top bolt on the starter I take the rear trany support loose and lower the trany as much at the back as possible. I also remove the center steering link to remove the starter after it is loose. Once you are used to it takes about 30 minutes.

[Tobi]

When you tried to push start it was it in second gear because it should be? The first gear is to short for this. I always run the starter even when push start it.

[focodave]

You can definitely get to the starter bolts but you do need at least 24" of extensions plus a swivel socket or a u-joint.
I just removed my starter in preparation of removing my engine.
I did it with the intake manifold removed so I could see what the heck I was trying to get to down there.
In my opinion, removing the starter bolts is kind of like horse breeding.
It helps, greatly, if someone can guide it in -- that is, if someone can help you from the top to help guide the socket onto the bolt while you are under the car working the ratchet and extensions with socket and u-joint.
Mark suggests 36" of extensions.
I was able to get the job done with 24" of extensions (me under the car and reaching the bolts from the tranny side up around the bell housing) with my wife helping to guide the socket onto the bolt head from the topside of the car.
It wasn't easy, but it wasn't impossible.
Nevertheless, I did invent some new cuss words trying to get the starter bolts out.