Raise the price of spiders

[Leesfer]

Lately I've been seeing people posting spiders for sale asking for 15k+ and the lot of us have been letting them know that the car isn't actually worth that much, but after I think about it, instead of turning them down, why don't we join these sellers? Anytime any Spider owners (sadly) sells their car, they should give it a nice price tag, causing the known price of spiders to rise to what we want. We do have the monopoly on the spiders after all.

[dinosabella]

I guess the value of our cars will be a factor of their scarcity. To restore a fiat spider realy is a bad investment and most of us do it out of love for the car and not with monatary ambitions in mind. Cause there are allot easier ways to throw away money. But as time goes on and as North Americans become interested in Italian cars again im sure our cars will go way up in value. before the gallardo became a common fixture in every rap video one could buy a lamborghini Urroco for peanuts, not well good luck. Same applies to the 80s model Maserati Quatroporte, you could find them for 2k each only 3-4 years ago, now they reach close to 10k if they are in nice condition.
Allot of people will buy the Fiat Spider with dreams of Riviera grandure but they quickly become frustrated with the repairs and the poor do it yourself work from the previous owner so they end up crushing the car, Breaks all of our hearts but raises the value at the same time.
I considered selling mine many many many times. I would love to find a Dino or a Lancia Fulvia but I always end up falling in love with the spider all over again. Since I dont drive it as much anymore because of work I plan on slowly putting the car right.

[So Cal Mark]

market value of any car is tied to restoration costs. Million dollar collector cars are in that price range because they are extremely rare, and a restoration consists of hand building many parts. Despite the Barrett-Jackson inflated prices, it's the rare car that is a good financial investment if you have to completely restore it. The collector cars that bring the highest prices are cars that defined the genre, were breakthrough engineering designs or made history in some way. It's pretty rare for any mass-produced car to fit that description.
My suggestion to customers wanting to restore not only Spiders, but any car is to invest the amount that will let you enjoy the car in the way you want. If you're considering seling the car, don't spend any money on it. The best you'll do is recoup your investment.
Spiders have gone through a typical evolution. It's only the last few years that significant restorations are being performed. Sure there were some Fiat fanatics restoring cars, but for most owners they were cheap, extra cars, and anything more than minor repairs resulted in the car being stored, sold, or scrapped. Now the surviving cars are old enough, and the vintage car market has brought some attention their way. It's an inexpensive entry level way into vintage car ownership. How many of us would own a Spider if the initial investment was 10k, 12k or 15k?
Take for example the street rod market. In recent years street rods all have become pro-built 100k cars. The days of a guy building one in his garage have gone away. But now, there's a resurgance of rat rods; throw-back street rods to the 50s when the average guy modified or built a street rod in his garage.
It's a two level system, with rich guys owning a trailer queen that they know nothing about other than how to turn the key. Those aren't car guys. Try talking to them at a meet or show. All they talk about is how much each item on the car cost.
I hope the Spider genre doesn't go that route

[dinosabella]

I agree 100% Mark,
I know some Ferrari guys who realy dont know how to enjoy their cars. I was with this one guy who searched 3 years for a perfect 328 with a fixed roof. Stunning car and it looked brand new in and out. He never brought it above 100kmph and rarely ever drove it. Wow. Why buy something like that if your not going to use it as it was designed.

Barret Jackson auctions have gotten out of control but as of late the cars arent getting as much as Mr. Jackson whould have liked. Its funny how some cars are the flavour of the month such as the Cuda or an arigional Impala when cars that were just as impressive dont get a fraction of the price.
So lets have Chip Foose use a Fiat Spider on Overhaulin and watch the prices rise. I have never seen him do a European car, he did do a honda civic once.

[Gunsmith]

Wait a minute, don't wake me, I'm dreaming of a Chip Foose Spider......Chip I think it would make for a great show if you came to Florida, I'll even take you fishing......................

[mbouse]

market value of any car is tied to restoration costs.

only to a point. Desirability is also a huge driver of value. Worth of automobiles are also stimulated by the pure emotional thoughts of nostalgia...reliving one's past, or living out the dream one never was able to obtain in youth. anyone wanna buy a fully restored buggy whip? not likely, even though it costs a fortune to restore it. those that did not see or did not drive a Fiat in their youth are not very likely to buy one now at the +10k price.

i laugh nowadays when i see what Barret Jackson (and the like) are calling Muscle Cars. Back-in-the-day, none of these were considered Muscle Cars. All the decent Muscle Cars have long ago been snatched up. it is a popularity contest in reverse. Who can afford to pay the most outlandish price for the the most obscure American Made thing that remotely resembles a Muscle Car? those idiots are buying themselves a place in the sport. BFD - - try earning your way in, fella!

rich guys owning a trailer queen that they know nothing about other than how to turn the key. Those aren't car guys. Try talking to them at a meet or show. All they talk about is how much each item on the car cost. This i agree with fully. I purposely engage some guys, knowing full well they just plopped down a big wad of cash to get the thing they are watchfully guarding. Last time i did this, the guy had purchased the car less than 3 weeks ago, and was still using a rented trailer. The Alfa was "a 58 or 59" he didn't even KNOW! it was "a 3 or 4 speed, column shift" he didn't KNOW!! i suggested that i might know as much about his car in an hour of internet study than he could currently offer three weeks after purchasing it....walked away chuckling. today, i still wonder how he could not know how many speeds the transmission had.

I have my +$10k buggie. She'll be home next Saturday from storage. i am clueless to know how far above $10k i have invested over the years, and don't wanna know. Would i plop down $15k for another example if i had the dough? NOPE. Two orphan antique autos are enough. Who would i sell? Besides, it is more fun to wrench and modify in my own garage.

[So Cal Mark]

"market value is tied to restoration costs"
That didn't come out quite the way I wanted it to. It probably should have been the other way 'round; restoration cost is tied to market value. It does cost much more to restore a valuable car, simply because they are more rare, and thus more parts will have to be hand-fabbed.

[Danno]

Despite all of this discussion, my reply to the original post is that I now list my car on the open market.
the Non-Negotiable price is: $10,750. please email me if you are interested. This price will go up dramatically once I paint it with a roller in the next month or so, so I'm calling it a "painter' special" for now. once I'm done painting It will be on the market for something like 13,000.

[mbouse]

undesireable cars still cost a miniature fortune to properly restore.....they just don't have as many sources of repair/restore parts to give a restorer a break. market value has more to do with desireability first, and then cosideration to restore cost second. i will play heck selling a fully restored buggy whip, since no one wants one....regardless of how much it cost me to restore it. A restored '69 GTO will always sell for more than a similar restoration of a '69 Fiat Spider in the USA, because Fiat has a bad reputation here (then and now).

though.... i prefer your re-phrasing.

what i hate to see are those cars that are fabbed up to be something they originally weren't. Like a LeMans turned into a GTO. That just is not right in my opinion. Or a Spider sold as an ABARTH.

Do what you wish with your restorations, but something that has been modified to this degree of misrepresentation should never command the high prices depicted on those "car shows". in the art world they call them fakes, and people go to jail for attempting to sell them as 'original'.

[Danno]

I'd like to relist my car with the following addendum regarding description:

"This beautiful partial restoration demonstrates Fiat's luxury and comfort in a car that is essentially the same as its highly touted ABARTH race cars. Minimal performance was lost with the standard production runs of the 2000 Spider, but many parts are still common between it and it's Fraternal Twin, the ABARTH Spider. Own a piece of racing history by purchasing this potential ABARTH clone."

[So Cal Mark]

I'll bet a restored buggy whip would command a pretty high price, you just have to find that niche market. Sort of similar to the Spider situation. If someone never owned one or wasn't familiar with the car, they would only buy it if it's a bargain

[mbouse]

I'll bet a restored buggy whip would command a pretty high price, you just have to find that niche market. Sort of similar to the Spider situation. If someone never owned one or wasn't familiar with the car, they would only buy it if it's a bargain

that i can agree with.

to those believing their Spider is worth $15k, good luck finding that market..... and since most of us frequenting this forum already have their limit of Fiats (with a few exceptions) advertising one of those exceptions to the rule here is all but a waste of time. Sorry, Danno....

[Leesfer]

Clone cars are disgusting, I agree with that right off the bat.

Mind you guys, I was just being idealistic when I started this thread, not that I want the price to go up (being that I wouldn't have one now if they didnt cost what they do) but it would be nice that now that I own one, for the spiders to get some
recognition haha

My idea was more for the cars to be sought after and recognized as something awesome, pretty much I think it would be sweet if everyone saw our cars in the same light as we see them. Because the truth is our cars are awesome! For instance I see brand new Hondas badged with "dohc" on the side like its something new and I think about how the spiders have been that way for decades, and four wheel disc brakes to boot! 5-speed tranny and on and on, you guys know what I'm talking about

But my original train of thought was that if people want to try to sell their cars for 15k then so be it, the high prices just might get our cars some attention

[mbouse]

Leesfer -

i understand your desire to raise the value of your vehicle, and feel better about owning your Spider...getting the admiration of all those chickees as you drive down the road, knowingly. yes, every time a Spider sells for over $10k, the perception of "value" goes up for every one of us. then again, how much did Seinfeld hurt the resale value of the Fiat BTM (stoopid newies).

i bought my car for many reasons, one of which was because of its uniqueness. if Spiders go up in value, will that bring more out of the woodwork, and lessen my uniqueness?

as the "value" of our vehicles rise, so will the cost of replacement parts, unwelcomed attention, replacement vehicle cost, and insurance. I already pay too much for insurance...thank you very much. i am o.k. with not getting the attention. i am just fine with being mistaken for an MG, most times.

[mdrburchette]

I'm with you on that comment, Mike. I owned my first Fiat in the early 80's. Back then, everyone had an MG or Triumph, but Fiats weren't the desirable sports car. In 95 I found my 72 and bought it for less than half what the guy was asking for it. It needed a lot of work, but I didn't buy it to resell. 13 years later, with thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours invested, I don't look at my car as anything but my personal pride and joy. I don't care how much Fiats are selling for, although I think they deserve positive attention for what they are. I hope they gain a little more popularity so we can enjoy the benefits of good parts resources, but I don't want them to become so popular that we can't afford to save the orphans or keep ours on the road.