FRAN OIL FILTERS SUCK

[baltobernie]

I don't have the ability to measure the effectiveness of each oil filter I examined. None of us do ... unless we work in a lab. It costs $100 to perform the ISO 4548-12 test on a single filter, and unless somebody wants to donate $800 to the cause, we'd have to accept each manufacturer's test data on the filter size they chose to test, and extrapolate that to the size used on our cars. In the case of the Fram, they publish beta data for the 8A can size. Should we assume the Fiat-size PH-7 size delivers the same results?

Without independent, third-party 4548-12 testing, I chose to compare total square inches of filtering media, and made the blanket statement that "more is better". Perhaps it is not. But it is probably better than selecting a filter based upon can size, or of manufacturer's beta data that may be meaningless in our application. For example, if Lampredi's design was to utilize a filter bypass pressure of 1 bar (which I cannot confirm), the super whiz-bang synthetic filter is probably not doing a good job in our motors if it opens at half that pressure. Given the RPM's the Spider engines routinely experience, such a filter would probably be bypassed much of the time.

Much of our discussion (and likely my Comparison Test, as well) is probably moot, as most of us change oil and filter at least every year, while accumulating far fewer miles than is detrimental to our engines, regardless of filter and oil manufacturer.

[4uall]

I don't have the ability to measure the effectiveness of each oil filter I examined. None of us do ... unless we work in a lab. It costs $100 to perform the ISO 4548-12 test on a single filter, and unless somebody wants to donate $800 to the cause, we'd have to accept each manufacturer's test data on the filter size they chose to test, and extrapolate that to the size used on our cars. In the case of the Fram, they publish beta data for the 8A can size. Should we assume the Fiat-size PH-7 size delivers the same results?

Without independent, third-party 4548-12 testing, I chose to compare total square inches of filtering media, and made the blanket statement that "more is better". Perhaps it is not. But it is probably better than selecting a filter based upon can size, or of manufacturer's beta data that may be meaningless in our application. For example, if Lampredi's design was to utilize a filter bypass pressure of 1 bar (which I cannot confirm), the super whiz-bang synthetic filter is probably not doing a good job in our motors if it opens at half that pressure. Given the RPM's the Spider engines routinely experience, such a filter would probably be bypassed much of the time.

Much of our discussion (and likely my Comparison Test, as well) is probably moot, as most of us change oil and filter at least every year, while accumulating far fewer miles than is detrimental to our engines, regardless of filter and oil manufacturer.

[dantye]

... Much of our discussion (and likely my Comparison Test, as well) is probably moot, as most of us change oil and filter at least every year, while accumulating far fewer miles than is detrimental to our engines, regardless of filter and oil manufacturer.

You can say that again! Oops - somebody already did.

[timinator]

I don't have the ability to measure the effectiveness of each oil filter I examined.

This is all you needed to state. Since you know of the test standard that filter manufactures use you should also know how hard it would be to falsify the results. Not to mention the field day that a rival manufacture would have in proving that it was a lie. The class action law suit that followed would also be fun.

The media used in filters can be made of different substances and be combined with multiple different media. So size of media is not going to reveal much. There is also a mathematical formula that dictates size and number of pleats required for maximum flow for the amount of media material used. I'm guessing the manufactures also know this.

You don't seem to understand how the filter bypass valve works(usually called relief valve). It sees the delta pressure from before the media and after. When the filter has trapped enough material that the valve opens it allows oil to travel past the media. It has nothing to do with the operating pressure(typically 30-80psi) of the system. The PureOne filter tested can hold 13 grams of trash before this happens. Water and gasoline are not considered in this test.

It is not true that the quality of the filter used is dependent on the mileage it sees in operation.

[4uall]

so I guess I am now more confused then the young, untrained teens behind the counter at Canadian Tire


Whoops by itzebtze, on Flickr

[baltobernie]

... you should also know how hard it would be to falsify the results. Not to mention the field day that a rival manufacture would have in proving that it was a lie. The class action law suit that followed would also be fun.

I'm not accusing any manufacturer of falsifying their data. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place, but I can't find 45-4812 data for individual filter part numbers from the various manufacturers. They all seem to say, "Average results for our part numbers ABC, DEF ...". I'm asking why these published results are relevant when they do not state beta numbers for the exact filter p/n used on the Fiat TC.

You don't seem to understand how the filter bypass valve works (usually called relief valve). It sees the delta pressure from before the media and after. When the filter has trapped enough material that the valve opens it allows oil to travel past the media. It has nothing to do with the operating pressure(typically 30-80psi) of the system.

I guess my knowledge of full-flow oil filters is lacking. I was under the impression that filter bypass (either the relief valve or the entire assembly moving against a spring) can be activated by several factors: viscosity of (cold) oil, oil pressure and filter flow restriction due to trapped contaminants. For a 1 bar spec'd filter, any factor or combination of factors that creates more than 15 psi restriction in the media will cause oil to bypass the filter. The Purolator filter that you're defending as an example has a bypass spec of .55 bar. If the Italian filter manufacturers used the correct spec, the Purolator will begin passing unfiltered oil at about 8 psi. 7 psi differential is a pretty big number in this context. Is it a stretch to say that the Purolator will begin passing unfiltered oil approximately 50% earlier in the filter's lifetime than the Clean or the UFI?

It is not true that the quality of the filter used is dependent on the mileage it sees in operation.

Can you elaborate on this statement? I would think just the opposite ... that the filtering capabilities on the one-thousandth pass is more important than how many particles of a given size are captured on the first pass.

[Danno]

lots of Fram hating. I have used Fram filters on my cars since I got my license nearly 20 years ago. I have NEVER had a problem with any of their products. Their sales volumes are so high, that I'm not really surprised to hear complaints. It would be statistically impossible for it to be any other way. You gotta do what you feel, though.

Also, could a moderator or someone with spelling capabilities please edit the original post subject. I get tired of seeing the stupid FRAN post on my list every single day.

[htchevyii]

I used to work at a Dodge dealer and the Fram filters were comming apart on the Cummins diesels and screwing them up. Fram finally had a recall. They really do look cheesy inside compared to a Wix. I also used them for years without any issues (that I know of), but why take a chance.
Here's another filter comparison: http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfil ... rence.html
And Fram says they changed their Cummins filter even though there was nothing wrong with it
http://www.framcatalog.com/Docs/FRAM/3C ... Engine.pdf

[So Cal Mark]

I left the thread title alone on purpose, thought it was pretty funny

[tartan18]

Who is Fran and what filter does she recommend?

[dantye]

Who is Fran and what filter does she recommend?

...and are Fram Tarkington and Booth Tarkington related?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[So Cal Mark]

showing my age, I was thinking more of Kukla, Fran and Ollie. Apparently their filters suck

[timinator]

The big oil filter manufactures make several lines or grades of filter. The Purolator filter you cut apart is not the filter I gave specs for. The Purolator PureOne PL30001 spec'd is their top-of-the-line. Relief valve setting of 16psi(1.1bar). It seemed proper to compare like filters.

Back to Fran sucks OP. Fram also makes different grades of filters. If the cheapest Fram filter does not work for your application then select a better grade of Fram filter(read as in more expensive). If the Fram Tough Guard filter still doesn't provide good service step up to the Fram HP1. To say all Fran Oil Filters Suck just doesn't work.

If the idea of an oil filter with a relief valve just doesn't do it for you, use a non-relief type filter. They all have one thing in common. The filter can is 12+ inches tall.

The filter that retains the smallest particle on the first pass will still retain the smallest particle on the one thousandth pass. It will continue doing this until it is plugged and the relief valve opens. Purolator says the PL series of filters should be changed every 3,000 miles. This statement indicates that filters with high filtration capabilites have more limited life than filters that do not.

Again, if you have a specific question about the specs of an individual filter contact their tech dept. They will give you an answer. If you show you have some understanding of the product they will help you. If you ask why their filter sucks they won't.

[mfusaro]

The big oil filter manufactures make several lines or grades of filter. The Purolator filter you cut apart is not the filter I gave specs for. The Purolator PureOne PL30001 spec'd is their top-of-the-line. Relief valve setting of 16psi(1.1bar). It seemed proper to compare like filters.

Back to Fran sucks OP. Fram also makes different grades of filters. If the cheapest Fram filter does not work for your application then select a better grade of Fram filter(read as in more expensive). If the Fram Tough Guard filter still doesn't provide good service step up to the Fram HP1. To say all Fran Oil Filters Suck just doesn't work.

Going back to my story that I posted earlier, The Fram filter that I bought was one of their "premium" filters, yet it had a pin hole leak in it. I've had many cars, done many oil changes and I use to think all oil filters were the same. However, when I ran into 3 separate problems involving Fram, all within the course of 2 years, it made me think about what I was buying. I may buy their air filters but I won't buy their oil filters ever again.. Just wish the retailers would supply filters other than Fram.

With that being said, now I'm going to eat my words...I just did an oil change and instead of using the stock filter I used a Purolator L14670. It fits the base but it's narrower and longer than the stock one. Oil pressure seems to be good since I changed it. Just wondering if anyone else might have stumbled upon this filter. I couldn't find a regular stock filter so I'm hoping this will be a good substitute. I hate to have to order an oil filter every time I do an oil change.

[So Cal Mark]

the latest issue of Engine Professional had an article by Lake Speed Jr of Joe Gibbs racing about filters. In this thread, media effectiveness was compared by the amount of media in each filter. Speeds' article adds another dimension to the discussion. Here it is verbatim
"A production car filter will have a finer micron rating than a racing filter will have. For example, a WIX 51061 small block Chevy filter has a nominal micron of 21 with a GPM flow rate of 11. A WIX 51061R racing filter has a flow rate of 28GPM and a nominal micron of 61. As you can see, you can use a production car filter during break-in since you are not running the engine to full engine speed (and thus don't need more than 11 GPM). After the initial 30 minute break-in, change the oil filter. Now you have removed all of the larger particles that could cause problems. Now you need the high flow rate filter when you start making dyno runs or go to the race track.

The tighter the micron, typically the less flow you have. Ideally, you want a micron tight enough to filter out clearance sized particles and a flow rate high enough to supply the required volume of oil to your engine."

So in the comparison of filters, it's really impossible to rate them by merely cutting them open. Unless you know the mfg's micron rating and intended flow rate you're comparing apples and oranges