Engine Replace/Mods

[davery]

I am at a point where I need to make some decisions. I need to get some transmission work done ($900) and am wanting to get a little more performance out of the car. The car is pretty much stock right now. I went and talked to a friend who also does some work on the car for me from time to time. He wants to replace the drivetrain with a drivetrain from an XR4Ti. I thought that was interesting. A 2.3 turbo/intercooled with a rear wheel drive at about 200HP. I could get one for about $1000. He said it would probably be about $3-4K to put it in. That would be a total of around $5K. I'm not sure I really need 200HP and really would be happy with another 30-40 more HP. That being said, if I repaired my current tran for about $1K, what engines mods could I do for around $4K? What horsepower could I expect to gain? I know some people are going not going to be happy with a Merkur drivetrain, and I am concerned about that also - but not enough to not consider it. I am just looking for a little more power and a tran that has 4th gear.

Thanks.

[narfire]

From what it looks like you have a 85...
For 4 G's I think you would get an engine with a noticable difference amount of power. The biggest difference I found was in the head and cams with the adjustable cam wheels. Oversized pistons and all the rotating stuff balanced with a lightened flywheel. Headers.
I kept the stock fuel injection because of its simpicity...I can understand and fix it.
I havn't dyno'd my car but it does accelerate better than stock and really pulls well between 3500-5000 rpm and I can still get 30 miles/gal (imperial gal) if I sort of behave with the pedal.
Marks ignition is on the wish list, but just bought a car and no $$$ I have his 274 FI cams...love em.
Chris

[vandor]

Of course the question is, why not just drive an XR4Ti?
They were neat cars, but the engines are antiquated compared to the Spider. It has power because it has a turbo. The same engine in the Mustang had ~90 HP. You could put a turbo on your engine, it would be a lot less work than swapping a drivetrain.

If you had $4k to spend on an engine you could easily get close to 150 HP (real HP, not BS figures some engine builders claim). The car would be significantly faster than now, but you would not be beating 400 HP muscle cars.

[davery]

Of course the question is, why not just drive an XR4Ti?
They were neat cars, but the engines are antiquated compared to the Spider. It has power because it has a turbo. The same engine in the Mustang had ~90 HP. You could put a turbo on your engine, it would be a lot less work than swapping a drivetrain.

If you had $4k to spend on an engine you could easily get close to 150 HP (real HP, not BS figures some engine builders claim). The car would be significantly faster than now, but you would not be beating 400 HP muscle cars.

I am not really interested in beating 400HP muscle cars. I know the 2.3 was an old design. I think that is the same engine I had in college on a 75 Pinto, of course without the turbo. I thought of adding a turbo to the Fiat and we have discussed that. I guess I need a plan of attack if I wanted to put $4K into the engine. I know the first thing is a header and exhaust. Of course if I think I want to add a turbo, I would have to have a header fabricated. I am leaning to just putting the money into the existing engine, but an engine swap is interesting. Like I said, I need a plan.

[So Cal Mark]

some consideration should be put into how long you plan to keep the car. Realize that a drivetrain swap will render the car useless to many people, while it would make it more appealing to some others. 85's are fairly rare and desireable.
Also realize that a swap like that will lead to many more modifications as you go along

[davery]

some consideration should be put into how long you plan to keep the car. Realize that a drivetrain swap will render the car useless to many people, while it would make it more appealing to some others. 85's are fairly rare and desireable.
Also realize that a swap like that will lead to many more modifications as you go along

I have had the car for 16 years and I have no plans on selling. This is my 2nd 85 and I owned the first one for 6 years until a HS girl came around a corner and totaled it for me. Anyway, I am not trying to make it more or less appealing to others. Just myself. In 10-12 years I will be retiring and moving to FL. I plan on this being our second car and I will probably re-install an aftermarket AC at some point. I wish you had developed that turbo header you were working on, although I understand the very limited market. It may have made this a bit easier. I think I am going to talk with my friend about the potential of adding a turbo. He is very experienced in working on Saabs and really knows those turbos.

[So Cal Mark]

the turbo header is still on the project list, but other projects are more pressing currently.

[narfire]

Perhaps chase down/source out a volumex conversion...
I had the good fortune to go for a drive in one last month and it had real nice smooth power.
I believe it works with a carb though.
Might be more than 4 G before your done though.

[maytag]

Wasn't the xr4ti awd?
I'd ditch that idea. That's a rough road to go. I've done several swaps in my day, including an awd Mitsubishi evo drivetrain into a 66 datsun fairlady. I'm telling you, that is a lot of work, and they are always requiring work later..... They are never complete.
I'm not a big turbo fan, but if you are thinking along those lines, I would recommend contacting sts turbo in salt lake city. I am typing this reply from my phone, so I can't send a link. But google knows where to find them. These guys are the king in developing easy to adapt turbo systemsthat actually work. They have pioneered a technology that allows the turbo (or turbos) to be installed a long ways from the motor without excessive turbo lag. They have even developed a system that works for road racing motorcycles, which is probably their biggest accomplishment . (Unless you ride, you don't know how disastrous a turbo coming on mid corner can be)

I have personal experience with them on a twin turbo c6 vette. As well as their turbo diesel motors and odd course their motorcycles.

I would bet they can make a working system for you cheaper than you could have a custom header made.

[mgbgtn]

Why not keep the twin cam theme and go with a Mazda Miata ( MX 5 ). They are avalible in the wreckers and if you get a newer one it comes with a 6 speed and 2000 cc and you can get turbo or superchargers for them.

[davery]

Why not keep the twin cam theme and go with a Mazda Miata ( MX 5 ). They are avalible in the wreckers and if you get a newer one it comes with a 6 speed and 2000 cc and you can get turbo or superchargers for them.

The guy I was talking with has a good friend that does Miata mods. He has done everything from V8 swaps to turbo installs. I am going to talk with him a little further. Over the phone he said a newer Miata engine with a turbo installed would be around $8K. I am wondering if he would be interested in putting a turbo on the Fiat.

[vandor]

The XR4Ti was RWD, not all wheel drive.

>Why not keep the twin cam theme and go with a Mazda Miata ( MX 5 ).

Why would one replace a 2 liter Twincam with another 2 liter Twincam? Just get a Miata, and then you get the whole package. FWIW the Miata's 6th gear is lower than the Spider's 5th! I believe their tires are larger diameter, so the engine revs are actually lower.

[maytag]

The XR4Ti was RWD, not all wheel drive.

Yup, you are correct. My bad. Not sure what had me thinking it was AWD?

[davery]

We were trying to think of the 4 cyl turbo rear wheel drive cars. We came up with the XR4Ti (175HP) and the Mustang SVO, which I think used the same engine. A couple of others we thought of was the Solstice, at 177HP and the S2000, at 240HP. Both would probably too expensive for me. The thought of a smoother transmission does appeal to me, but probably not enough to replace the entire drivetrain. Im going to meet with the Mazda guy and see what he says. I will probably get the tran fixed for $900 and then start to put some cash into the enegine. I know the first thing will be get a larger exhaust, assuming I do not go with the turbo route. Then I am not sure what to do. Maybe a hotter cam? Any suggestions?

[baltobernie]

Take your car to a shop that has a chassis dyno. Let's see what you have now, before suggesting mods.