*Engine trouble*

[FiatDavidFiat]

1976 Fiat 124 Spider

I recently purchased my car with the knowledge that it would take some work, but am having trouble narrowing down the problem in order to have it running well enough to smog it within the time-frame allotted (end of the week).

I replaced just about the entire ignition system for starters (ignition coil, plug wires, plugs, cap, rotor, points, condensors and the battery), because it didn't seem to be running to performance standards while I was able to drive it around. After having driven it a little more after replacing these parts, it's giving me some different problems..

It started out that it would bog out in 3rd+ gear around 5k+ rpm, then it started getting worse down thru the gears until it stopped running altogether. Having replaced the ignition system and not seeming to have trouble with it running *while it ran* (and sounding better after replacing the ignition system), I was left to two - three seperate diagnosis.

1) it's got a thermostat problem - I determined this because it would run fine for a few minutes before cutting out.. even going as high as 5th gear. Plus the overflow cap popping off right about when it started happening (I later found that the radiator cap hadn't been tightened fully). I will be replacing this part when the oder comes in, even though I don't really believe this to be the problem.

2) fuel pump problem - I read someone's post that sounded similar and so I ordered a fuel pump which I have yet to receive/install. In the meantime I have replaced most of the hoses connected to the carburetor and will be replacing the fuel lines that run from the gas tank to the engine compartment. I will also be rebuilding the carburetor (considering replacing the intake manifold and/or the gasket while I have the carb off.

3) fuel filter problem - I have a replacement fuel filter that I have yet to install due to the fact that I CANNOT find it! I can't find the fuel filter! I've looked all over.. I checked the trunk compartment and found a strange device there that may have been a filter but it seemed to be a 1-way check valve which I checked and left in-line. I jacked the car up and followed the fuel lines to the engine compartment and found nothing! I checked the engine compartment which is what was pointed to online, but can't find it! There was an unclear picture in a make-shift manual I purchased that showed what may have been a pressure check/filter housing that is the only piece I haven't opened due to time constraints and because it doesn't seem to have any lines running thru it as in the picture.

Bottom line is that my car is presently not running due to (I think) lack of fuel.
Lastly, possibly related, there was smoke coming out of two areas the last time it ran. I didn't see the primary source by the carb, but there was certainly smoke coming out of the oil dip-stick hole... Help?

[narfire]

Not all that knowledgable about carb'd cars but there is some common elements to the FI..
You need spark at the right time
You need compression
You need fuel.
Before you go changing out potentially just fine parts, check the above things... Take a plug out..clean plug in good shape ? ground it...has spark (on all plugs) if not why..
Check location of the timing marks in relation to TDC....good? (belt has been changed if you don't know the history/last time it was changed)
Getting fuel...disconect at the carb and crank while end is in a cup.. no fuel why?
Runs when you dribble a bit of fuel down the carb?
Your right that the filter could be plugged..tank could be rusty and a ton of crap is sitting on the bottom of the tank. A days job to pull, flush clean and treat and install.


.
,

[azruss]

troubleshooting a new project is alot to take on. it does sound like you have fuel issue. when you are getting partial fuel and only acts up under a big load is tough to chase without just replacing parts. might be worthwile to pull the line from the carb and pump into a jar with the starter turning the motor. see if the fuel is coming out clean and particle free as well as a decent volume for idle.

[maytag]

O man... I feel yer pain. You are spending some dough, and lots of time, trying to replace stuff in an effort to narrow down the problem. I know that sucks for ya.
So, you're describing a problem that shifts / changes symptoms. Let's look at what changes on the motor when you drive it, to where it gradually does this to you.
The sorta 'kicker' here, is when you described smoke coming out of the dipstick tube.

But let's not jump to conclusions.

Do as Narfire suggested: pull the plugs and look at 'em. Or maybe first: when the motor starts acting-up, pull each plug wire one at a time (use pliers! ) and listen for which one doesn't change anything when you disconnect it.
Tell us what you come up with.

And do this: pop the radiator cap and tell me what the coolant looks like.... oil floating on top? foamy?

is there smoke out the tailpipe?
check the oil dipstick: coolant in the oil?

[FiatDavidFiat]

Narfire*
I just changed the plugs, and as I said it runs great when it runs.. when I pull the fuel line and crank it it doesn’t come out well.. takes a little while and then only blurbs out of the line..
For cleaning the tank.. I got some acetone.. is that the right thing to use? I was going to pull the tank and just flush it out with some.. possibly let it set over night.. good idea?

Azruss*
It doesn’t look like a decent volume to me.. changing the fuel pump when the order gets here.. any help with where the filter is?

Maytag*
The plugs are fine.. I’m going to check the compression when I get a chance (already have the tool).. the problem is that it DOESN’t start any more.. I’m sure it’s because of the fuel because I can spray cleaner in the carb and it fires right up.. can’t run it long enough to do the other check yet. Coolant looks clean.. it was changed before I bought it (the only thing done to it!). I didn’t notice any coolant in the oil. I have yet to change it, because I was waiting to take it (cheaper) to the oil shop for that. When I got it the oil actually smelled like gas, but it doesn’t anymore (weird?). But I couldn’t tell with the tail-pipe because it stopped running when the smoke came out (it was a concerning amount, but not necessarily an overly concerning amount, maybe?)..

[fiat218]

No one mention,timing

[rlux4]

Not all that knowledgable about carb'd cars but there is some common elements to the FI..
You need spark at the right time
You need compression
You need fuel.,

I put this in the same words. Just another way of saying timing, but it also covers having spark.
Ron

[baltobernie]

Try loosening the gas cap. The evaporative emissions system in these cars is often troublesome, particularly with old components now submerged in ethanol. There aren't modern replacements, either.

Inside your gas tank, there's a "sock" over the pickup tube. OE versions were bronze and eventually disintegrate, allowing crud into the lines. Maybe the pickup itself is clogged; an easy diagnosis ... just pull the sender/pickup unit from the top of the tank. But try the gas cap first. It can get real expensive real quick by simply substituting parts that "might" be the problem.

There should be an external fuel filter somewhere along the delivery line. Any universal style suitable for carburetor cars will work.

[FiatBen]

Wandering if this got resolved. Too often I see someone post a problem, several others chime in with suggestions and the thread dies. Of course, if my car is running, I'd rather be out driving than typing.

From my limited knowledge, it seems that if you can't find the fuel filter, you need to at least put one of those cheap universal ones in front of the carb.

If gas is dribbling when you pull the inlet to the carb, definitely a plugged up something. Should be process of elimination at that point with cleaning being the solution. Takes time, but it doesn't cost much money!!

I like the old carb engines. So much easier to work on than FI and the parts are cheaper. I'm cheap, what can I say?

[FiatDavidFiat]

I just wanted to bring closure to this thread, it's running great as of today!! ^_^

I actually started a newer thread sometime back, here's the link:

http://www.fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=20530