intermittent hot no-start, 2L Turbo

[otter]

Hello y'all,

I've got a question about an issue on my Spider and am hoping for a bit of direction that can save me some time in diagnosis. The car is an '81 2L Turbo and the most annoying issue it presently has is a sometimes failure to start when warm. No problems cold starting. Once warm, sometimes it will be fine and sometimes it will not be. When this happens, usually the first time I try to restart it it will almost-but-not-quite catch, and thereafter it will just crank. The only surefire way to get it to start is to just wait, and go do something else. Sometimes 15 minutes, sometimes 30, etc. Last two times it happened I was backing it into the garage after a drive and with an occasional low idle it stalled and wouldn't restart, leaving my girlfriend and I and a friendly neighbor to push it in. It's happened occasionally while driving too (usually clutch in coming to a stop, and engine speed will drop too low) and also after sitting parked for a bit.

I have begun to look through the archives for information. Symptoms similar to this:

http://fiatspider.com/f08/viewtopic.php ... rt#p142357

I have a full set of manuals. I generally do my own car maintenance, though for several reasons I am not nearly as familiar with my Fiat as I am with my other cars, depsite a long ownership - My dad and I got this car from the original owner when I was 14, so between the two of us I've had it since 1991 - so I walk much more gingerly when approaching diagnoses, as simple as the car is. Off the top of my head, the AFM was replaced with a 'new' (reman, I presume) unit in 2008 when the car was put back on the road after sitting for a few years. Ignition switch is original. So is the alternator. I have never done the brown wire fix. I can't remember whether the injectors are original or not, but they probably are (when the car was put back on the road in 2008, I was in the middle of moving and did not have time to do the work myself, so I had someone else do it.) I think it exhibited this behavior years before, but it was fine after the rivival. Then it returned. Other times I've dirven the car all day without problem. The only consistent thing is that it's when the car is warm.

I have not begun diagnosis of this yet, as I haven't had much time. I will have some time this evening and Friday evening to spend on it. It's usually a bit tricky because I can't reproduce the condition without driving the car for a while, and I don't want to find myself stuck somewhere until the car starts again. Especially by the side of the road, which has happened once or twice. I would love to drive it when I go to Indiana Dunes this weekend, but, well, I don't want to end up with a no-start in an inconvenient location Any help narrowing things down is appreciated!

thanks,
David
Chicago

[vandor]

First thing to check is to see if you get spark.
If so, you can try cranking it with the accelerator pedal fully depressed. If it starts after a bit of cranking then the engine may be flooding.

[divace73]

If it wasn't cranking over I'd say the Ignition swtich, but as it is cranking over, the basics need to be checked, spark and fuel.
I had a problem where the dist shaft had that much vertical play where it would move vertically up more noticably when it did get hot at times, this movement was enough to stop the magnetice pickup from working and hense no spark.... took me ages to figure that one out.....

Check for spark do eliminate that....

[otter]

I took it for a drive this evening after work in an attempt to provoke the condition, ideally once I'm back in the garage Lovely evening for a drive, and of course when I get back and park it and shut it off, it starts right up again. Unfortunately I can't diagnose anything if the fault isn't showing itself. Sigh. When it is, easy enough to pull a plug wire and check for spark (though of course I haven't done that yet!) I'd pull a plug, too, to see if it's wet or not. The more I think about it, the more I think the injectors were replaced in 2008 (I have all the records for the car going back to the '80s....except that work) and IIRC it would do this before then, too.

My distributor shaft seal is leaking, and replacing it is on my to-do list. It does not seem unreasonable that there could be enough vertical play in the distributor to give the same behavior that your car did - I suppose that will be easy enough to get a good idea of when I remove it. How did you track down your problem to the dizzy?

Determining that it is or is not getting spark and fuel will of course narrow things down, but I want to figure out what is making it happen only when it does.

If nothing else, it was such a joy just to take it for a short drive; it puts a smile on my face every time I drive it!

David

[So Cal Mark]

when it finally restarts, does it run smoothly right away or does it misfire at first?

[otter]

Generally it runs smoothly when it restarts, I think.

[divace73]

i really do HATE those sorts of problems...the ones that magically dissapear just as they appeared and you thinks it's gone for ever....then bam it strikes again.

I had an issue with what appeared to the the white cable to the electronic module under the coil, car would kick over, but no start, I'd go out, wiggle the connector then she'd start. I even crimped the lug to ensure solid connection thinking I'd solved the problem...then bam again it happened and the wiggle made no difference.
I swapped coil and electronic module to be sure, so far it hasn't happened again, (which includes a session down at a race track).

May be worth to see if you can get a spare coil and module for Justin....you know, Justin Case...
Or get one of Marks electronic systems part of the process of eleminatin.