Knock knock...

[recker500]

Soooo... Thanks to the wonderful wealth of knowledge floating about on here, I have not had to post anything of my own for nearly two years. But this problem that I have now that things are coming along, is one that I need veteran ears to assist me with. If possible through video anyway.

I have a knock and what a knock it is. Car starts and idles beautifully, even from a cold start. Something I am proud of after taking the engine apart (sans the block) and putting it back together last year as I have never done this before but with this forum and the "Shop Manual" I feel I did very well. Anyway back on topic. I have checked the timing in particular the aux pulley and everything is as it should be. Regardless, it is higher up, gotta be in the head. My old (25 yr old) ears can't pin point it though. I am leaning toward the exhaust side of the world. It appears loudest there. I am going to give the old broken broom handle aka stick to ear trick a whirl and see if a can narrow my search better. I just wanted to see if anyone's well trained ears will tell them "hey, it's a valve seal" or "it's a gremlin" or something along those lines. Any input would be great.

Planning to register it finally and for the first time in the nearly two years I've been tinkering with it since I bought it with a blown head gasket. Just want to make sure I get things fixed right. I may be young but I am in no hurry to do this wrong. I really love the beauty and simplicity of these cars and this is actually the second one I've owned.

Please offer me any advice about the knock or anything for that matter. I live in las Vegas so if anyone knows any shops in town or any other resources that would be fantastic as well.

Btw, it's a 77 with the 1800 engine (pretty certain of the engine ). Have not upgraded really anything engine wise. Just the new 32/36 carb to eliminate the smog stuff. Luckily here in Vegas registering as a classic vehicle means no smog check. Just gotta drive less than 5k per year which is doable for this first year.
Thank you all in advance!
video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsUP7YeC ... ata_player

[RRoller123]

From the youtube video (and my admittedly) terrible ears, that sounds like excessive gap on a valve tappet, intake side.

[recker500]

Listening more closely to the video, I think it definitely does sound louder on the intake side rather than the exhaust side.

So is there an easy way to diagnose a gap? Would I be able to see a gap if I take the valve cover off and rotate the engine by hand or would it require tearing down again?

[RoyBatty]

Go get a mechanics stethoscope to pinpoint the location of the noise.
Or use the low tech method that has worked so well for me.
Get an old broom stick or piece of wooden dowel about the same diameter or maybe a little smaller. Cut it off at about 3' in length. Now then, place one end of the stick in the area where you think the noise is coming from and with a hand on the other end, place your good ear on your hand and listen. Move the "dirty" end of the stick around as needed to locate the source of the noise. Works great and the neighbors will stare at you in amazement when you use this in the driveway.

[RRoller123]

If you get a good manual there are detailed instructions on how to set the valve clearance, and it is not too hard to do. These are shim systems versus adjustable rocker tappets, but it is doable by anyone paying attention to detail.

[recker500]

I have the shop manual, well a reprint one that I bought online and it has been incredibly helpful. I will take a look through that as well to see what it offers in this area. It was spot on for everything else so far.

Will the head have to come off? or would I be able to remove only the cam tower with the head on the block still? I guess what I am asking is are there any unforeseen problems I would cause by leaving the head on to do this?

[recker500]

I am going to try the broomstick trick too before I do anything. I want to be sure it's a tappet problem before I move forward. Will also try just removing the valve cover for a visual.

[RRoller123]

You just have to take off the valve covers to do an adjustment. Not so bad. Go step by step, or find a good local mechanic. Shouldn't be overly expensive to get a valve adjustment done.

[narfire]

Valve check and adjustment is not difficult, just perhaps a tad time consuming the first time. You'll need a set of feeler gauges to check the gap to start. Once that is done and if you have found any excessive or tighter than spec gap, then the fun begins. In the IAP cataloge is a table to help set up the numbers you have found and what you do to determine the right shim to get the desired gap.You'll be needing a shim tool, magnet, and awl or small jewlers screw driver if you do need to start swapping shims.
First just check the gap and go from there, simple thing to do by taking the valve covers off.

[majicwrench]

Mechanices stephascope....is gonna be tough to pinpont. I have one, and have used it constantly for 35 yrs. Engine noises echo around inside pretty good even with a well-trained ear. Just pull valve covers and check valve clearance.
The good news is that it does not sound like anything terminal. Check valve clearance.
Keith

[recker500]

Ok you guys have made me feel so much better about this. I thought I would have to remove the cam towers as I thought the shims go under the tappet? maybe I just need to step back, do my research based on your wonderful suggestions, and go from there.

Thank you all for the responses thus far. I have an IAP catalog laying around... Probably two or three actually. I think I know the charts you are referencing. Sounds like I might need a few tools to do this properly. The shim tool and something to check the gap. I do have a little ID and OD measuring tool good for hoses and bolts and such. Not sure if that will work where I need to test though.

I will do my homework and try to confirm this as the problem and then go from there. I've been grilling all day today and havent been able to touch the car. I'm lucky enough to work for a company that pays me to do this on holidays.

[narfire]

Glad you caught your breath.... Watcha grilling...anything good
As mentioned just check the clearances to start before buying more tools and shims and stuff. Do write down what you find on intake and exhaust and go from there.
I believe intake was 17 thou and exhaust was 19 thou on stock cams

[recker500]

Grilled some burgers, chicken and ribs. Definitely some good food!!

So I plan to pick up a set of feelers on my way home today so that I can test the gaps. I will make some sort of chart as suggested and go from there. One thing that has me a little worried is locating a valve adjustment tool to do this. I don't suppose there is any alternate (but feasible) way to do this if I don't have that tool? I already checked IAP and the site says to call for availability, haven't called yet. Someone on ebay is selling one for somewhere in the ball park of $265... not gonna happen. Vick's is also sold out. One step at a time though, I suppose. Lets see what the gaps are first.

[recker500]

Bought a feeler set on my way home from work today. Hopefully it does the job. Clearances to come in the near future.

I wanted to get some opinions on a tool i found on ebay. As valve adjustment tools are nearly impossible to come by, i came across this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/K-D-Tools-VALVE ... 893wt_1148

And I wanted some opinions. It's the closest thing my searching has come across that might do the job. Thoughts? For $10 plus 7$ shipping it's not a terribly big risk. I just want to know from people familiar with valve adjustment,on our cars if this could work?

I had planned on re-sealing and attaching the heater water pipe at the water pump today as I had a somewhat constant leak there with the car running. Come to find out, there is actually a small hole in the pipe itself not too far from the water pump connection. The PO had straight water in the system and from what I gathered the car sat for 7 years before I picked it up. Rusted right through the old water pipe. It bleeds green! Ordered a replacement one from eBay that wasn't new, but looked in superior condition compared to mine that now has a rust hole in the side of it.

[recker500]

Ok guys, the knock is most definitely and frighteningly from the intake side. Here are my clearances:

Exhaust (Correct .019" (.483mm)
1 .014" (.356mm)
2 .020" (.508mm)
3 .016" (.406mm)
4 .016" (.406mm)
Intake (Correct .017" (.432mm)
1 .012" (.305mm)
2 .008" (.203mm)
3 .016" (.406mm)
4 .033" (.839mm)

Don't have the valve compression tool, however I ordered the one from ebay I posted above to see if it will work or if I can modify it to work. The width of the rails that would depress the bucket are on spec with the width of the bucket so thats a start. IAP is out of stock on the valve tool until August. Only paid $16 with shipping for this one on eBay.

I am worried by these numbers on the intake side. at forst I thought maybe I didn't tighten the cam tower down at the back side by #4 but double checked and the bolts seem to be as they should. There is a big enough gap on intake #4 though that I could actually take a picture of it with my camera.


Any thoughts or input as always, would be greatly appreciated. Hoefully the tool I ordered will work for me to take out the current shims and go forward from there.

Aside from the numbers being not where they should be, should I be worried?

Or just get the right shims in there and move on to the next prob..project? <=====Preferred answer