No power, slow to get up to speed, hills very slow...

[johnk63366]

With all my issues with my 72, it's finally running. A short update as to what's been going on. First, tore everything down and replaced head gasket and all the way up. Put on DMSA carb from 74, but still running the double port intake, solved knocking problem by actually timing the thing by ear and turning everything where it should go, replaced with new fuel pump, new sending unit in tank, new thermostat, fan switch, new fuel lines in engine compartment, new fuel filter... Finally started and running Ok.

Now, I go to drive it and it's slow to get up to speed, very slow. Once I hit 40mph its decent until I reach a hill, then slows big time. Have to downshift considerably just to get up the dang thing. Then I got a line of pissed off cars behind me.

To top that all off, somewhere in the engine compartment it's exhaust everywhere and I can't see where it's coming from. THere is no leak at the exhaust gasket, that's new, no leak where it connects to the 2 tubes down, no leak anywhere else on the exhaust, it just seems to waft up from the carborator side and just shows up out of no where. So, of course anytime I'm driving it, I come out smelling like exhaust. Not good if I need to take is somewhere I don't want to stink.

I'm at the point where I'm getting really frustrated and giving up. Tempted to put her up on craigslist and sell her, but just wish everything worked right so I wouldn't have to. (She also has rust in all the right places)

Any thoughts?? Thanks for the help.

[johnk63366]

Here she is, if anyone is interested if I can't fix her. I'm located in St. Charles, Missouri inside the St. Louis metro area.

http://s1211.photobucket.com/albums/cc4 ... %20Spider/

[So Cal Mark]

timing by ear is not a good solution

[johnk63366]

timing by ear is not a good solution

Well, I thought I could because I've read everywhere that this can be done. Plus I don't have a timing light and never have done that in the past. I did what I thought I was supposed to do.. line up all the timing marks then turn the distributor until it runs smooth, adjust carb accordinly, listen for it missing. Once I lined up all the timing marks, what else is there besides adjusting the distributor?

[bobplyler]

it just seems to waft up from the carborator side and just shows up out of no where.

There shouldn't be any exhaust on the carb side. Maybe the oil separator has a problem.

[twincam69]

Check your mechanical advance. It may be stuck. After my 1960 1200 cabriolet sat over the winter once the distributor advance weights rusted and the car exhibited the same lack of power you discribe.

[johnk63366]

Check your mechanical advance. It may be stuck. After my 1960 1200 cabriolet sat over the winter once the distributor advance weights rusted and the car exhibited the same lack of power you discribe.

Mechanical Advance? Oil Seperator? All new words to me. I'll have to do some research. I'm really the backyard mechanic so I learn as I go.

How do I set the mechanical advance, in complete idiot terms so I get it.

[maytag]

How do I set the mechanical advance, in complete idiot terms so I get it.

John. we probably all started like you: learning as we go. so don't get uptight when I tell you it;s time to buy a timing light.

You can get it "close" by ear. but trying to identify a problem with timing is nearly impossible without a light. Get one with an adjustable advance knob. You can pick these up at Oreilleys for under $50, but I prefer good quality on diagnostic tools; mine was closer to about $95. I think you can also "rent / borrow" from places like Oreilley.

Let's talk timing so we're all on the same page: there's cam / valve timing, which is what you;re doing when you line-up the marks on the cams & crank. and there's ignition timing, which you adjust at the distributor. These two are very inter-related, but they are set independently of each other.
let's assume the cam-timing is correct.

For ignition timing, we talk in terms of "static" which is set by turning the distributor to advance / retard the spark at low revs. and then then we talk about "advance". there are two types of advance used on these cars: mechanical (weights and springs) and vacuum (small round cannister on the side, connected with a hose to your intake). ALL of these cars have springs & weights, but only certain years had the vacuum advance added to this.

The nut-shell function of advance? when your motor is turning at 1000rpm, firing a spark-plug at something close to 10 degrees before TDC allows enough time for the flame to propagate through the cylinder and build pressure. But at 5000rpm, there's much less time, so you need to start ignition earlier. So the distributor has the ability to advance itself. the weights and springs work centrifugally: as the motor spins faster, the weights overcome the springs and the base-plate rotates, advancing the spark. With the vacuum advance, the baseplate is rotated and spark advanced based on a vacuum signal, rather than just engine speed.

Most of us will set static to 10dbtdc. That's a good place to start. And then you should be able to measure your mechanical advance coming in with another 20d or so, for a total of 30-ish. (some here will know the exact numbers these distributors have built-in)

so you can see why a problem like you are describing NEEDS a timing-light to diagnose properly.

hope that helps.

[twincam69]

The mechanical (more accurately, centrifugal) advance mechanism is in your distributor. There are two weights and two springs that allow the ignition to advance as the rpm's increase up to a set limit. You really need an exploded view and/or a manual to see what I'm talking about. You do not "set" the mechanism. You would set your initial timing per specs and using a timing light you could see the ignition timing advance when you increased the rpm of the engine. If the timing did not advance....the weights could be stuck.

[maytag]

Mechanical Advance? Oil Seperator? All new words to me. I'll have to do some research. I'm really the backyard mechanic so I learn as I go.

Oil separator:

on the left-side of the block, tucked-up under the intake, there's a crankcase-vent. Once side of this has a hose which connect to your air filter, allowing crankcase fumes to be recycled through the motor. The other side is connected via rubber hose to a crankcase return, allowing atomized oil in the crankcase emissions to be reclaimed back to the sump.

it is quite common for either or both of these hoses to bake and break. when they do, the crankcase vents to atmosphere. it's very different from exhaust though: it'll burn your eyeballs, irritate your lungs if you breathe deeply, and there's no color associated with it. BUT IT WILL DEFINITELY MAKE YOU STINK!

[johnk63366]

Ok, seems to me that I can solve the "Stink" by putting in a hose from the Oil Seperater.. There is not one in place so assuming this is the deal.

Now, on to the timing, dist springs and weights... 10dlbeessses 20deszzers 30seezers .... I'm clueless on all this stuff. Setting spaces and this and that... anyone got a video on all that??? I can watch and learn how to do anything, probably even surgery, but the whole timing issue I'm thinking I might have to send her to a mechanic to do that. Problem with that is who??? Looked around the area and most don't even know what the heck a Fiat is... but they can fix anything right? Yeah, at a price and cost of screwing things up more. I've already done a good job at that, don't need anyone else to do that for me.

Anyone know anyone in the St. Louis area?

Guess it's time to research timing lights and how they work. Wouldn't know where to begin if I just bought one.

Sounds like timing/dist is the issue. Now I got to figure it out. Thanks a ton.

[maytag]

no, you'll be fine learning how to do this. it's real basic stuff. Just gotta get through the first time.
I'll try to take some pics and do a short write-up for ya this weekend.
unless someone gets to it sooner for ya.

[maytag]

yeah... so... I'm home... and realizing that it's going to be pretty difficult to take any meaningful pics with my motor (and CAR) still in a million pieces waiting for a couple parts to show....

here's the snapshot:
on the front of the motor, there are some marks on the cover, and one on the crank pulley. the timing-light hooks to the #4 plug wire and every time the plug fires, the light strobes. the effect is that when you point the light at the marks, it only lights-up when the motor is firing #4, allowing you to see how many degrees in advance of TDC it is firing.

As you rev the motor and the advance "comes-in" (meaning the weights are moving the plate in the distributor) the marks will no longer line-up, because the timing is changing (if everything is working the way it should be). When this happens, an "advance-type" light will let you turn the dial on the light 'til the marks line-up again. then you look at the knob and it'll tell you how many degrees in advance you are (which you add to static timing to get your total advance.)

it makes perfect sense the first time you do it.

[azruss]

pix are worth a thousand words. 1st pic shows a late model engine. the pointer on the top between the 2 cam pulleys should be lined up with the small hole in each cam pulley when the motor is at TDC. (this is when #1 piston is all the way up. this can be determined by pulling the front most plug and inserting a straw or something soft in the hole. when the motor is rotated by hand, the straw will go up and down with the piston. when the straw is at its highest point, that is TDC (top dead center...gotta learn these tricky terms ). this alignment is cam timing. once this is set, it isnt changed.
The bottom wheel is the crankshaft pulley. it has a small mark on the edge and this is used to determine ignition timing. you can also see a piece with 3 teeth on it. these are timing marks. the big tooth is TDC, the 2nd if 5 degrees BTDC (before top dead center), the 3rd is 10 degrees BTDC. this timing is changed by rotating the distributor (dizzy for short). This requires the motor to be running, thus the need for the timing light. the timing light flashes when #1 or #4 spark plug fires. at this point, the mark on the crank pulley should line up with the 10 BTDC mark when the car is idling. If you have an early spider, the timing marks will be on the timing belt cover on the other side of the crank pulley.
The bottom picture is what the top of the dizzy looks like with the cap off. there are 2 weights that swing out stretching the springs when the engine is rev'd. this is the mechanical advance. check to see if those weight pivot freely. on old dizzys they can wear a groove in the base plate so they dont move freely. rust can also be a problem. you can take this apart and give it a good clean. just make sure the weights and springs get back to the same spot.

[johnk63366]

Thanks a ton for the information. I took the dizzy apart and cleaned it up, turns out there was a piece of plastic in there that could have possibly prevented the weights from moving. Cleaned it up and greased it up, I even bought a timing light. I was already to get is started and timed, when the car wouldn't start. Of Course, right? If it's not one thing, it's another. Turns out my fuel lines got clogged. Noticed that the fuel filter wasn't filling up with gas ( I have the clear see through filter). Knew it wasn't the fuel pump, because I just replaced it with a new one. There was sediment in the filter. Took pump off and manually ran it and it worked, connected a seperate hose to the fuel line running from tank and blew into the hose. Wouldn't do anything, and tried again, then it blew threw and I heard bubbles in the tank. So, clogged lines. Sucks too because before I did anything to the car I lined the gas tank with that Kream stuff. Guess it didn't do the trick. I have a brand new sending unit too. SO, now I got to drain the tank, and figure out what to do. I hate to buy a new tank, just don't have the money.

Any suggestions? Will a fuel additive do anything to help disolve any of the rust deposits? Anything I can do besides replace the tank? Not going to reline it again, that was a pain.