FRAN OIL FILTERS SUCK

[puddin]

sorry to be so blunt but WOW-- if you look at my post about oil pressure drop and my on going fustration you'll know why i'm mad

i'm a pretty good mech and been working on cars for 20+ yrs along with military aircraft(AF-8B Harriers) , boats , fire engines , school buses , and electo mechanical automation (i work for the us post office as a tech on mail processing machines like lochead martin and northrup grumman machines)

anyway i have been using fram oil filters in pretty much all my vehicles from cars trucks boats etc and never had a problem
untill my fiat-- my post about the oil press was that i changed the oil when i bought it 6mo ago and used a purolator filter and castrol gtx 10w-40 and had 40 psi at idle (pretty good) then i change the oil and used a fram filter and seen the oil press drop to less than 20psi at idle and thought that the oil pump or gauge was bad. after messing around for awhile someone on this site mentioned that fram filter gave them a problem too. so i went out and bought a Mobile 1 M1204 ($12 kinda expensive) but immediatly saw the oil press go back to 40psi and to 60psi at 3000rpm

i'd hate to bash a product but all my vehicles has standard oil pressure gauges( fords with the "normal range" chevy with the L thur H ) but never any numerical values or some with idiot lights. all of which never give you a good read of oil press.

just beware of fram filters and get a sun oil press gauge ($20)

[manoa matt]

It could be a higher flow rate filter and hence the lower pressure. The oil pump and tolerances in the engine did not change. 15-20 psi at idle is pretty normal, increasing 10psi for every 1000rpm. Most Fiat owners report 60-80psi around 5000rpm.

[narfire]

Bummer about the filter.
I happen to use Fram PH-7 on mine and the pressures to date seem fine with 20-50 or 10-40 oil.

[baltobernie]

If you do an Internet search on oil filters, you'll find posters on several forums like this one who have cut open and measured various filters for their Ford, Chevy, etc. Fram universally ranks at the bottom for filtering square inches, etc. I considered doing this for our size, but my buddy sold his airplane (and the oil filter slicer).

[So Cal Mark]

oil pressure isn't generated at the filter, it's created by the clearances on the crankshaft so a filter that supposedly flows more won't lower pressure.

[mdrburchette]

What would make the oil pressure drop by changing the filter then? It's happened to me so I make sure I buy known good quality filters. Fram isn't one of my list.

[majicwrench]

Depending on where the tap for the oil pressure gauge is located, either before, or after the filter, it is indeed possible for a filter to change the reading. Possible, not very likely IMHO.
I would be willing to bet, that when people change their filter, they change their oil too. And what you drain out, is certainly not the same as what you put in.

A little off subject, but 20 years ago I saw some super-cheepo filters that when cut open THE INSIDE OF THE METAL CASING WAS AN OLD VEGGY CAN!!!

[spider2081]

I don't have an oil pressure gauge. I was thinking of putting one in and then decided I would focus at it like my temp gauge and not enjoy the car. LOL
I'm sure there will be lots of thoughts on this one. So here I go. I believe all engine lubrications have design criteria. The particular filter considered in the design of the engine is what should be used. So I looked in my 1981 owners manual and couldn't find where it specified a brand or pn for the filter. In the ricambi mechanical parts book it gives the fiat # 311 so that is not much help. I have been going to my local parts store and installing what they sell me. My engine oil warning light goes out just as the engine starts which id pretty quick.

I googled oil filters and oil pressure and did get a little info.
1. Most oil pumps have a pressure relief valve in them that can effect oil pressure when oil is changed.
2. most oil filters like the one on the Fiat Spider have a bypass valve that allows oil to flow at a reduced pressure through the center of the filter element unfiltered if the oil is too thick to pass through the filter element. (Cold oil)
3. Many engines require the filter to have a check valve in it to prevent the oil from draining out of the engine when not running. I believe the Fiat filters need the check valve.
I was taught to always top off the filter making sure the element was saturated before istalling it. I thought that was so the oil got into the engine faster not having to wait for the filter to fill. Now I am wondering if it has to do with keeping the filters by pass valve from opening on the first start/run of the engine.

My last thought could it be the filters in question were not USA manufactured???

[majicwrench]

I'm with ya on the gauge thing. I got some oil pressure, I am happy. Temp somewhere in the middle, I'm happy. Don't need anything other than what is in the dash now.
Topping off filter when changing just save a few seconds of no oil getting to bearings. Nice but not neccessary.

Another worthless trivia note.....
About 15 years ( maybe earlier) ago GM started re-designing their gauges. Rather than have them read accurate, they have them read WHAT MOST CUSTOMERS WANT TO SEE. I know when I worked at Chevy back in the early 80's, lots of new-car owners would complain "my oil pressure is too low" "my engine runs too hot" etc etc. GM listened to their customers, and now the gauges read in the middle most of the time.
Keith

[dantye]

... 3. Many engines require the filter to have a check valve in it to prevent the oil from draining out of the engine when not running. I believe the Fiat filters need the check valve....
My last thought could it be the filters in question were not USA manufactured???

According to a PDF doc you can find in an oil related thread here, the spider does NOT need the check valve, but it does no harm to have it.

Fram, like most of their competitors, does make some cheap filters to supply the $X.99 oil change market. When comparing the tiny one on my Spider now, (same diameter as the gasket ring!) it became clear to me that a larger filter would provide more cooling of the oil. Larger filters radiate more heat, usually contain more filter area, and because they contain more oil, there is more oil circulating to distribute excess heat so the coolant can remove it. So I am taking a chance on this big honkin' FRAM PH8A Extra Guard, (Made in USA). It is less than half the price of K&N or Mobil high end filters. My guess is that Fram makes a good percentage of OEM filters anyway, so a properly installed filter being the ONLY cause of any serious engine problem in a non-raced car is a rare thing. Here is a photo of this filter along side an AC Delco PF13, which, because it is "in stock" and "fits" is probably on as many Fiats as any other specific filter:

[4uall]

funny, I was just recommended that exact filter for the same reasons from Part Source. Did the oil change myself to be sure it was done correctly

[dantye]

funny, I was just recommended that exact filter for the same reasons from Part Source. Did the oil change myself to be sure it was done correctly

I suppose I also should admit to just a bit of sentimentality, since I had a relative, since passed away, who worked his entire adult life for Fram in Ohio. Boy are those days gone!

[124ADDHE]

I read good things on an oil filter deconstruction site about the NAPA gold filters, their under $10 and the one i use is the gigantic Fram part#ph8a (also on my jag and rover), the NAPA gold part number is 1515; it just feels much heavier than the fram or the bosch units i also used to run.

[maytag]

I considered doing this for our size, but my buddy sold his airplane (and the oil filter slicer).

Now that there's funny.... I don;t care who y'are. !!!

[tartan18]

There is a lot of information about oil filters on the web. Here is an article that I found very helpful.

http://www.dcfiats.org/tech/filter-B.pdf

For my next oil change I am going with the Clean filter that is sold by IAP. It just doesn't make much sense to me to go cheep on an oil filter.