Clutch Cable - threaded out

[flyboy]

In the old archives I picked up some great information on the clutch, pedal, and cable assembly. I picked up a 1978 spider about 2 months ago and one of the final things I have to work on is the clutch. My problem is that the clutch pedal only returns about half way up and the clutch engages VERY close to the floor. So close, in fact, that sometimes I don't push the pedal down far enough and shifting is tough. The easiest fix seemed to be tightening the nut on the transmission end of the cable... but it was already maxed out! I checked the firewall since I had read that it is weak - broken but already repaired. Also, is the clutch lever (where the cable attaches to on the transmission end - can't recall a better name) supposed to travel the entire length of the slot or sit somewhere in the middle when the clutch pedal isn't depressed.

Is it possible that the cable stretched and replacing it with a new cable will solve the problem? Could I just tap some additional threads on the existing cable and tighten the nut a few more turns, or better yet, put on some washers to take up some extra space?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[78spyderturbo]

Hello when you say that the fire wall was fixed is it flat?
Were the cable comes out of the fire wall there is a small raised area if this is ok then your clutch disc most likeky needs replacement.
best of luck .

[So Cal Mark]

if the firewall was repaired you can bet the clutch pedal is also broken. Look up under the dash at the fork on the top of pedal where the cable nut rides. If the fingers on the fork are bent or cracked you'll need to remove the pedal and repair it or replace it

[flyboy]

The hole in the fire wall was repaired and the repair is raised, that is, not flush with the rest of the fire wall as 78spyderturbo suggests is appropriate. If it is high enough, I do not know. Maybe adding a couple of washers in this location could help?

Socal Mark, I didn't see any bends or cracks in the pedal when I had the cable and spring detached. Of course, I was standing on my head and could have missed something. I will check this again and let you know what I find.

I assume that the pedal is supposed to return to the same plane as the other pedals... Mine only comes back up about half way. In an attempt to fix this, I flipped the little "S" shaped spring over thinking that someone may have installed it incorrectly. It brought the pedal up a little, but not as high as I would have liked. I can pull it up the rest of the way however.

[So Cal Mark]

there should only be about 3/4" free play in the pedal at the top. The cable could be stretched, but usually frayed strands in the cable cause that and then the cable will bind in the sheath. Does the cable have the proper nut at the clutch fork? It should be a rounded nut to pivot in the clutch fork

[flyboy]

Does the cable have the proper nut at the clutch fork? It should be a rounded nut to pivot in the clutch fork

Yes, has the rounded nut.

there should only be about 3/4" free play in the pedal at the top. The cable could be stretched, but usually frayed strands in the cable cause that and then the cable will bind in the sheath.

could frayed strands be causing the pedal not to return fully to the top? As I mentioned, it only comes about half way back up. this is substantially better than when I bought the car and the total movement of the clutch pedal was about 1 inch and it was on the floor! Being the first Fiat I had driven, I didn't think much of it - just a short clutch travel. Obviously not the case.

Also, is it possible that the return spring, on the transmission end, is weak and not returning the pedal to proper position?

[So Cal Mark]

a frayed cable will cause the pedal to not return. The spring on the tranny is to keep the release bearing from riding on the pressure plate constantly

[mbouse]

a frayed cable could irritate the situation considerably.

no the tranny spring isn't gonna pull the cable & pedal back into position. But, can you pull on the fork relaxing that spring, and at the same time pull the pedal fully back into position? if not, is the resistance in the cable, or the tranny fork?

you also mentioned that the "S" hook was turned 180 degrees by yourself. I am concerned that you stated this so matter of factly, like it was so easy to do. not that this is the answer to your issue, but didn't you find that stretching this spring was one of the three most difficult tasks you have ever performed? Cuz, if it were a breeze, then something is very wrong.

pedal to the floor before engaging the clutch indicates a worn clutch. pedal not returning all the way up to the same level as the brake pedal could indicate several issues.

when the pedal is relaxed, look up to the cable end. is it snuggly in place in the fork, or is it sticking out away from the fork about 3/4"? in other words, is the cable returning all the way, but the pedal isn't?

[Mark_vaughn]

In one of your earlier posts you mention the clutch fork under the car where you tighten the cable was sitting in the middle of the opening. At least that is how I understood it.

You should have a spring attached to the fork to pull it back when releasing the clutch.

[mbouse]

you are correct Mark. But that spring will not pull the clutch pedal into its normal resting position. in fact, the clutch pedal will operate near normally with this spring flying across the highway at a very high rate of speed perpendicular to the direction of the rest of the vehicle. that spring is important, though often missing from Spiders....just is not the pedal return function.




brought to you by the "Been there - Done that" committee

[flyboy]

In one of your earlier posts you mention the clutch fork under the car where you tighten the cable was sitting in the middle of the opening. At least that is how I understood it. You should have a spring attached to the fork to pull it back when releasing the clutch.

You are correct - the clutch fork does not return all the way and the return spring is attached. However, if the cable is disconnected, it does return all the way.

a frayed cable could irritate the situation considerably. no the tranny spring isn't gonna pull the cable & pedal back into position. But, can you pull on the fork relaxing that spring, and at the same time pull the pedal fully back into position? if not, is the resistance in the cable, or the tranny fork?

when the pedal is relaxed, look up to the cable end. is it snuggly in place in the fork, or is it sticking out away from the fork about 3/4"? in other words, is the cable returning all the way, but the pedal isn't?

These are excellent points. Since with the clutch cable disconnected, the clutch fork does return all the way, is sounds like I have resistance somewhere else. Probably in the cable itself, but possibly in the pedal. It is a great suggestion to see if the cable sticks out past the pedal fork - though I don't think this is the case because the clutch fork doesn't return all the way in its slot.

Maybe this is the time to mention that when the horn was honked, it usually blew the fuse. I read in some other threads that the clutch cable can act as a ground causing it to bind. I think I have fixed the short in the horn (wires had rubbed through the insulation - electrical tape seems to have taken care of the problem) but this could have caused cable fray that binds the cable.

In any event, I will replace the cable. Seems worthwhile since they are only about $20. At least this will eliminate one of the potential factors.

you also mentioned that the "S" hook was turned 180 degrees by yourself. I am concerned that you stated this so matter of factly, like it was so easy to do. not that this is the answer to your issue, but didn't you find that stretching this spring was one of the three most difficult tasks you have ever performed? Cuz, if it were a breeze, then something is very wrong.

Nice observation. I wish I had read some of the posts related to the issue before I flipped the "S" hook. When I disconnected the clutch cable, the pedal was pulled to the floor by the spring. Not surprising, at least not now that I know how it works. Of course at the time, I thought that a spring should pull the pedal back up even with the other pedals. I saw the "S" hook and it appeared to be the culprit since the main spring really couldn't be moved. So, I pulled the springs off - this was very easy by prying with a screwdriver. I flipped the S hook and went to put everything back together. Not as easy. But, standing on one's head for an extended period gives the brain lots of blood so I came up with two solutions. 1) shove something between the coils of the spring (I was later to read that pennies work great) or 2) use a ratcheting tie down to stretch the spring. I used the ratcheting tie down and had the spring back on in a couple of minutes with no apparent warping of the convertible top to which I attached the other end of the tie down. Next time, maybe I will try the pennies.

Do I need to flip the "S" hook back over? It sounds like I should do this for proper functionality once I replace the clutch cable.

Thanks again for all the great insight.

[mbouse]

i can't recall, but there seems to be a "no-brainer" position for the "S" hook, and a not so good position. once i read you discovered the penny routine, i resumed a little more confidence in your assembly. ummm, the "S" hook and spring do not guaruntee proper pedal return, even if properly installed. I have seen more than one clutch pedal operate near normal with no "S" hook and spring installed, because the spring is so difficult to re-install, guys left them on the workbench.

what i am trying to say is that zero springs, improperly installed springs, or perfectly installed new springs will not alone produce proper relaxed pedal positioning. rule out the springs in finding the source of your symptoms.

yes, the cable is metal, so is the inner sleeve, the outer sleeve being plastic. so if the sleeve and the cable are fusing together because of electrical arc activity, you may indeed have resistance in the cable travel; if not rectified will eventually result in a broken cable, or a completely welded together cable and sleeve. There are two recommendations to prevent this from happening in the future. #1 repair/replace the factory grounding cable between the engine block and the undercarriage. #2 add another ground strap between the engine block and the body.

if your cable is binding, it must not be releasing the clutch all the way. if so, you are still looking at cable and clutch replacement. and, i have not heard that you have eliminated the torn/broken pedal fork.

[flyboy]

OK, I checked the end of the fork on the pedal and it doesn't appear to be bent or cracked. However, while under the pedals, I did notice that the cracked sheet metal of the firewall was rubbing on the pedal fork and this could be what is keeping the pedal from returning. I mentioned previously that this hole in the firewall was repaired.

I have a NOS clutch cable in route so when I replace the cable, I will see if I can bend the sheet metal so it no longer rubs the pedal fork. Hopefully this takes care of it.

Dan

[mbouse]

get your dremel out and grind that jagged edge permenantly out of position.

[So Cal Mark]

when you get that new cable, spray some graphite or other dry lubricant inside and work the cable until it moves very freely