More progress

[bwilson27]

Never mind. It doesn't matter.

[mbouse]

I, like many others, have been following Brady's project and am looking forward to seeing it reach fruition. I would hate to see this thread lost now because of a dispute. Perhaps a new thread could be started to discuss this issue of it does indeed require further discussion.
Jim

I think that the dispute is in the right place... the cause of the dispute is, after all, part of Brady's progress/lack of progress. His engine build has been hampered by multiple occurances of defective product being delivered to his home. As it stands now, Brady has $700 worth of damaged and unreturnable parts. Parts that are HIGHLY visible; parts that are unabashedly adverstised at this site by the moderator. Everyone following Brady's build deserves to know the satisfaction or lack of satisfaction that he is experiencing with a specific Fiat parts supplier. That is a valid reason for this forum's existence.

If the post or any of the replies within are deleted by anyone other than the author(s), i for one would not be surprised. The thread won't disappear due to a dispute. The threads disappearance will occur because the moderator can't tolerate criticism or challenges to his business ethics; private or public.

[grittracing]

I agree with Mike. That this is in the correct place. I posted while doing my build the ups and downs i was running into.about a high school.holding my car hostage and doing more damage than good. and i currently post my ups and downs. And as a customer also. I feel others should know what can happen by ordering from any supplier and we should take notes when these things happen. How well the are resolved. Either like a Buss.person or child like by all suppliers. Like wise if there are bad customers. This isnt just a community its a Family and we will all have disagreements its how we grow from them .

[azygoustoyou]

I have always posted the ups and downs to try to help my fellow Fiat members so they wouldn't make the same mistake. I think it is valuable to all of us who work on our own cars or even if having someone else do the job. I want to make a point. I never once said anyone's name nor any business when I referred to my problem. I would also like to make a point that at this very moment I'm not the only one having the exact same issues with the exact same part. Funny how we both are getting the same service.

[fiat218]

well it shy's me away of what i was going to do

[maytag]

I am conflicted here, but I would like to weigh-in with an opinion (I always do).

I have enjoyed this thread, and watching the very-high quality of work that was being done here has served to motivate me on occasion. I don't know Brady, nor the other individual having the same issue as Brady. Nor do I know Mark (though we have PM'd enough that I have a small taste of his business personality). So with that context......

Free speech gets thrown around all the time, and with frequent disregard to others' rights. I fully affirm Brady's right to explain his distress over this situation. And I think that this is an appropriate place for him to do so, because it is very likely the place that he learned of the product and seller in question, as it has been for many of us.
However: I also recognize Mark's (and Evan's) right to moderate, remove, censor, delete, and otherwise modify anything posted here for whatever reason they see fit. it is their right, because it is their site.

And then I would assert my right to respond to such censorship by going elsewhere for my Fiat needs, be they parts, knowledge, or just sharing the camaraderie that exists between people of like-mind. I won't bitch-n-moan that Brady got blocked.... I'll just find out where he IS posting (and others like him) and go THERE instead.

[Exit98]

If the post or any of the replies within are deleted by anyone other than the author(s), i for one would not be surprised. The thread won't disappear due to a dispute. The threads disappearance will occur because the moderator can't tolerate criticism or challenges to his business ethics; private or public.

Hi Mike,

We don't know each other, but I'm familiar with your work within the Spider community and appriciate it.

But why are you back here if you still got an axe to grind?

Trust me, Brady can stick up for himself, he's a part of the NJ contingent and has plenty of support.

This is Evan and Mark's site. They own it. They can post or not post whatever they please. And if I get pissed off I'll leave.

[courtenay]

Mike Bouse - you were "ridiculed off the site" before - and yet here you are back again. With your buddy Beachboy along with you.
Frankly, IMHO disputes between customers and suppliers don't belong on the site under any circumstances. They should be dealt with by the participants, courts or whatever. Letting such "discussions" onto the site results in a whole bunch of childish, soap opera like behaviour that seems to me to be a long way from the level of information exchange that I look to this forum for.

[grittracing]

I think courts should be a last ditch effort. Like i said before we are all family. However. Court really would pay off. Once you figure in the part cost around $700 and both parties are at either end of the USA about 3500 miles or so. Even flying would be more than it is worth. So a open forum where he learned of the part and was showing his progress is a good place to ask for help after all other course have been used.

[bwilson27]

What I think is Mark should be sponsoring Brady's rebuild at this point... I came to this site over 2 years ago BECAUSE of this thread. Google pointed right to it.
I' would've never even heard of Mark if it hadn't been for this thread. I wonder how many more are like me?
I think Mark is amazing for his giant volume of help he has contributed. I mean really, to find a person so ready to help is Invaluable to the ordinary jackoff like me.
I think Brady is amazing for documenting this like he has, and for all his enthusiasm and his willingness to share new ideas

I think this disagreement is stupid and beside the point.
There's a lot of people who look to you both.

[ga.spyder]

First off,I hate hearing of these conflicts.Maybe the one big happy family idea is a my own folly.When there were conflicts in the past re. vendors,I was asked to boycot this forum.I have had no personal or business related beefs with Mark,so I have remained here.I am a supporter of Brady's work and have been the first one to buy several of his products,and review/post pictures for others to see.I feel Brady is one of the most talented fab guys in the Fiat community and feel I can call him my friend.Mark has been extremely helpful to me personally,and I have purchased several of his products also.I have great respect for Mark and what he does.
I dont pretend to know the details here ,but for my $.02 worth..if Brady recieved a damaged product why not just send him a new ,undamaged unit and then make the fight with the shipper.They are obviously the responsible party.I have rec'd many damaged parts(incl.Vicks,IAP,Harley,etc..), and there has never been an issue with making right on a product.I know Mark puts a lot of work into these headers and they are priced accordingly.I think a buyer has the right to expect a undamaged piece for his purchase.Mark,do you have any recourse re. damaged goods with your shipper? To have Brady show up at FFO with a perfect car that has banged up headers is not going to bode well for either party!
I hope this can be worked out amicably,Mark is compensated for the damage done in shipping,and Brady gets a set of undamaged pipes.

[azygoustoyou]

That was very well said Craig! That is exactly how I feel. I paid good money for the parts on my car and it wasn't easy to come by.

[fiat218]

in all that work being done, i would not want a dent/scratched in anything, i mean it has not even started yet lol let along a ding in something

[majicwrench]

First off, I have no interest in any of this, I just want to applaud everyone for keeping it civil. I enjoy everyone's participation in the site, and hope this all works out.
Sincerely,
Keith

[azygoustoyou]

I got the radiator installed. Boy it's cold here. This weather make me want to move.