Expert advice needed

[leeputmanjr]

Anyone have any tips on pulling off an oil pan w/ engine in the car?

Well, like the old saying goes, "Life is hard when you're stupid". At least it is for me.

Let me tell you what happened:

I have recently dropped a rebuilt engine into my Spider, and I'm "almost" at the point of being able to fire it up. Saturday morning, as promised, my rebuilt & re-curved distributor arrived. (The last bit!)



Sadly, my Saturday was already booked full of errands & to-do items, which I did cheerfully (distracted), thinking about the 15 minutes it'd take to now fire up The Beast.

At about 5pm, I got 'The Nod'. The GF took off for about an hour, and she rolled her eyes at me & told me to "go play with the car before you bust at the seams".

So, I did.

...and in the process, I broke the golden rule: I rushed.

Fortunately, I'd had a clipboard on the kitchen table the past week, making notes about a few items to check before I attempted to fire things up. I discovered two items that were not re-assembled onto my block:

1. The oil tube (next to the oil pickup):



2. The oil pump drive gear:



I'm not sure why Apex would install the oil pump without the oil tube, but clearly the drive gear would have fallen out. Either way, I saw both of these items in the box of 'extra pieces' they gave me, I just wasn't smart enough to ask what they were. Regardless, at least I figured it out.

Figuring the oil tube wasn't critical but the drive gear was - I saw it was easy enough to 'pop right in' through the block-mounted distributor hole:



What I didn't realize is that the rear side of this hole is OPEN into the block's main crank area. The oil pump drive gear did NOT 'just pop into place', it fell into (what sounded like) the oil pan.

I was so shocked & stunned, I didn't even curse. Immediately, I realized I had to pull my oil pan with the engine in the car - a real hairy knuckle-busting treat of a job.

For 5 minutes of rushing, I delayed my first engine start by at LEAST a week!

This next Saturday, I'll be in my driveway with the car jacked up, the engine mounts un-done, and the engine hoist lifting the engine (hopefully!) enough to give me the clearance to pull the oil pan off.

I'll then pick out the stupid drive gear, and install the oil tube. Both of which I'm tempted to engrave curse words on.

[TX82FIAT]

Lee, wow, I can see and almost feel the drive gear falling into that hole! It sounds like you have the right idea with undoing the mounts and hoisting the engine up a little to get at the pan. Please be careful in your hoisting ot the engine as a shifting engine is not good on the hands. lesson learned the hard way replacing a crossmember in similar fasion.

[So Cal Mark]

the gear can be retreived thru the same hole it fell into, but that doesn't resolve the missing tube

[azruss]

not good news, lee. if you disconnect the motor mounts and jack up the engine as far as it can go with the tranny connected, you buy yourself about an 1" (probably less) of working space between the bottom of the block and the dropped pan. i dont think it is enough room to install the oil tube.

[engineerted]

Lee, this may have been a blessing in disguise, as the oil pump mounting can float around a bit thus if the gear was not install at the same time as the pump, the drive shaft could bind and destroys itself. Tighten the oil pump bolts down while rotating the aux gear by hand and feel for any binding.

Ted

[pastaroni34]

Oil pan out while engine in the car.. that's something I'll never do again. It takes less than an hour for me to pull the whole thing and start over.. that's what I recommend.

Before you put the timing belt on, use a drill to turn the aux shaft and prime the system with oil.

[leeputmanjr]

Mark-

How critical is the oil tube? ...and how, exactly, does one fish the gear out? Magnet on a flexi-stick? How hard is it to bring it up out of the hole - is geometry an issue?

Jason -

Aw, cripes!

You're CLEARLY a much more accomplished wrencher than me. It took longer than that for me to just get the damn starter in!

Will I easily be able to get enough clearance to remove the oil pump bolts?

[pastaroni34]

Oil tube is a must, it returns oil from the head right next to the pick up. Without it oil will have a longer path back to the pick up. You don't want to rebuild this whole thing again because of oil starvation.

Starter is a no-fun job.. engine pulling is fast: disconnect driveshaft, loosen engine and transmission mounts, remove shifter, disconnect fuel lines, pull radiator, electrical connections.. ready to go!

It would take 10 minutes for me to pull the pan, with it out of the car.. probably 2 hours in the car! I guess it wouldn't be so bad since its fresh and everything isn't covered in oil and grime. I did the pan in the car ONE time.. I've pulled engines 50+ times, I just do what I know best!

[131]

It would take 10 minutes for me to pull the pan, with it out of the car.. probably 2 hours in the car! I guess it wouldn't be so bad since its fresh and everything isn't covered in oil and grime. I did the pan in the car ONE time.. I've pulled engines 50+ times, I just do what I know best!

I haven't been under a 124 for a lot of years. Is supporting the engine from the top and removing the crossmember/suspension an easier option than pulling the donk out?

[narfire]

I helped a fellow earlier in the year pull the pan as the back end of the aux shaft broke and fell into the pan.
We took the motor mount nuts off and same with the tranny mounts. I think the exhaust manifold as well for some reason,clearance to get at some oil pan bolts? Anyway got it jacked up enough at the bell housing to pull the pan and retrieve the chunk of aux shaft and as we found out, the lower half of the oil pump as well. I believe the whole evolution was about a couple of hours.
Chris

[bradartigue]

It can be done, it is filthy work and takes as long as pulling the motor out.

However, whether it can be done or not isn't the issue - I'd be more concerned that "they" reinstalled everything under there correctly - like bolted the oil pump in, torqued the bearing caps, and so on. Hate to say it but forgetting to reinstall a part is something you could have done on your own, if you paid someone for that then bring it to them.

[leeputmanjr]

I'll be in my driveway tomorrow attempting this. I'll take pictures & document the process. I'm sure there will be cussing & perhaps a tool or two getting thrown - stop by if you're in the area!

[WYSpider]

Lee, our thoughts will be with you Make sure those cuss words are Italian. It will minimize the language barrier and make your point of view very clear.

[leeputmanjr]

The sweet taste of success!

Saturday, while eveyone else in Chi-FLU was off on Scott Hay's cruise around the Fox Valley, I was in my driveway, wrestling with my oil pan. I got the engine mounts undone & the jack under the bellhousing, which gave me 'just' enough room to get all 20,000 oil pan bolts off, and the oil pan then became loose-ish.

However, I just couldn't quite wrestle it off! So, I went to Pep Boys & got a magnet on a stick, and came home to Steve Muzzillo waiting to help! In fact, he was able to use the magnet to fish the oil drive gear out!



Then, as I was moving the oil pan around to see if I could finagle the oil tube into place, the darn thing popped out! Steve & I compared it to the old oil pan, and we modded the baffle to match what Giovanni did to my old one:



The oil pan now pops in & out with ease!

Here you can see the disconcerting view of Mother Earth, as seen through my block!



Oil tube & oil pump installed correctly, with the oil pump drive gear contained correctly.



It took Steve & I a long, long time to button up the oil pan - and by the time we finished, I felt like I'd been covered head to toe in 20W-50. That whole process was a real knuckle-buster, a real PITA; and while it was tough to finagle, at least it wasn't tought to figure out!

Once we got the oil pan done, we dropped the engine & got the motor mounts secured, and the oil back in the car. We turned the engine over & saw oil pressure. Then, with little else to do, we popped in the distributor, and hooked up the plug wires. First turn of the key yielded nothing, we moved the dizzy a bit, same result. We moved it the other way, and we had signs of life! One more bump, and she fired up! Sounding STRONG, and mean, we timed her by ear, and just let her idle.



All the gauges gave the expected, fantastic readings! The colling system warmed up, the thermostat opened, and the system burped. The fan cycled properly, all the oil on the exhaust burned off (it kept the mosquitos at bay!), and after a short delay to fix my battery charger (Steve was very patient with me), we got the battery charged enough for multiple re-starts (it idles a bit too low), and before putting The Beast away, I even took 'er up & down my street! The clutch, brakes, and steering all felt exactly like they'd not been used in six months, but it was all good-to-go! I put my foot into second gear, and the new motor sounded GLORIOUS!

[leeputmanjr]

Now that The Beast has cooled down, she just needs her headbolts re-torqued, timing set via timing light, the idle adjusted, and a couple of WOT power-pulls to seat the rings. Change the oil, and follow the owner's manual for break-in