Clutch cable
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- Posts: 1814
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 11:04 am
- Your car is a: 82 Fiat Spider 2000 CSO
- Location: San Antonio
Clutch cable
After my clutch cable snapped at a red light on Saturday I reviewed the forum, spoke to some fellow Fiat folks and repaired the cable last night. below is a picture of my broken cable. As you can see it broke right at the weld point that hooks to the fork on the clutch pedal. This is some basic stuff but I thought I would summarize some of the things I have found as well as why my cable broke at this spot. I have read about people replacing multiple cables in a year.
Reasons why the clutch cable breaks or has some other malfunction.
1. Faulty installation - I suspect this is why my cable failed. The rounded piece of metal that slips (is forced) into the clutch pedal fork in the deep dark area that is fun to work in, was not greased and set horizontally creating a pivot point. The cable needs to be set so that the rounded edge of the catch piece odf metal pivots when the clutch is engaged. This is the little piece at the top of the picture that creates a T with the cable. If this is installed vertically it will force the cable to bend at the weld point each and every time the cable is engaged. I'm now going to put an inspection of the position of this cable on my mental checklist of things to look at when changing the oil.
2. The fork on the clutch pedal is mangled from years of use and/or abuse. In this case even if you install the cble correcly the pivot point may not work because the cable does not sit properly in the fork if at all. In this case you will need to get a new clutch pedal as well as cable.
3. The firewall that the cable and grommet pass through is cracked. This creates a flex point or can even tear the metal further or wear against the cable. The most common solution has been to weld new metal over the cracked area using the same section from a donor car or a new piece of sheet metal.
4. The housing on the bottom of your transmission where the cable passes throrugh as an anchor point is typically right next to the ground wire (about and inch away). This can cause some electricity to pass into the clutch cable creating problems.
I'm sure there are more example of how problems come up with the clutch cable these seem to be the most common.
When installing a clutch cable start with the pedal end of the cable and get as much cable as possible in the compartment. A helper pushing on the cable from the engine compartment helped me get that extra cable room. You may want to put a bend on the end of the cable so that you can arc the cable into the fork from above to get the propper seating. you will understand when you try to slip that cable on. Apply grease in the pedal fork prior to installing the cable. Have a pair of long/extended pliers with a curve at the end, a screwdriver, a good source of light up into the pedal. (LED camping light held in mouth so i can swear out loud). Once the cable is properly seating run your cable down to the transmission following the original route being carful not to alter the position of the cable/tong on the pedal fork. Adjust clutch so that you have just under one inch of free play.
Took about 15 minutes of upside down aggravation to seat the cable properly. There in lies the problem. Many of these were not installed properly creating the issues outlined above.
Reasons why the clutch cable breaks or has some other malfunction.
1. Faulty installation - I suspect this is why my cable failed. The rounded piece of metal that slips (is forced) into the clutch pedal fork in the deep dark area that is fun to work in, was not greased and set horizontally creating a pivot point. The cable needs to be set so that the rounded edge of the catch piece odf metal pivots when the clutch is engaged. This is the little piece at the top of the picture that creates a T with the cable. If this is installed vertically it will force the cable to bend at the weld point each and every time the cable is engaged. I'm now going to put an inspection of the position of this cable on my mental checklist of things to look at when changing the oil.
2. The fork on the clutch pedal is mangled from years of use and/or abuse. In this case even if you install the cble correcly the pivot point may not work because the cable does not sit properly in the fork if at all. In this case you will need to get a new clutch pedal as well as cable.
3. The firewall that the cable and grommet pass through is cracked. This creates a flex point or can even tear the metal further or wear against the cable. The most common solution has been to weld new metal over the cracked area using the same section from a donor car or a new piece of sheet metal.
4. The housing on the bottom of your transmission where the cable passes throrugh as an anchor point is typically right next to the ground wire (about and inch away). This can cause some electricity to pass into the clutch cable creating problems.
I'm sure there are more example of how problems come up with the clutch cable these seem to be the most common.
When installing a clutch cable start with the pedal end of the cable and get as much cable as possible in the compartment. A helper pushing on the cable from the engine compartment helped me get that extra cable room. You may want to put a bend on the end of the cable so that you can arc the cable into the fork from above to get the propper seating. you will understand when you try to slip that cable on. Apply grease in the pedal fork prior to installing the cable. Have a pair of long/extended pliers with a curve at the end, a screwdriver, a good source of light up into the pedal. (LED camping light held in mouth so i can swear out loud). Once the cable is properly seating run your cable down to the transmission following the original route being carful not to alter the position of the cable/tong on the pedal fork. Adjust clutch so that you have just under one inch of free play.
Took about 15 minutes of upside down aggravation to seat the cable properly. There in lies the problem. Many of these were not installed properly creating the issues outlined above.
Buon giro a tutti! - enjoy the ride!
82 Fiat Spider 2000
03 BMW M3
07 Chevy Suburban
82 Fiat Spider 2000
03 BMW M3
07 Chevy Suburban
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- Posts: 344
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:29 pm
- Your car is a: 1976 spider
Re: Clutch cable
Very helpful! Thanks for taking time to give explanation!
Don
Don
76 Spider
St. Louis, MO
St. Louis, MO
- azruss
- Posts: 3659
- Joined: Sun May 30, 2010 12:24 pm
- Your car is a: 80 Fiat 2000 FI
Re: Clutch cable
great explanation. what i would add is that the curved forks at the top of the clutch pedal are a weak spot and will be bent. If you have lost a cable with this kind of break, you need to pull the pedal and get those forks straight.
Also, 15 minutes to do this. you must be superman. you will give all these poor nubies false hope. 3 hours is more likely.
Also, 15 minutes to do this. you must be superman. you will give all these poor nubies false hope. 3 hours is more likely.
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- Posts: 1814
- Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 11:04 am
- Your car is a: 82 Fiat Spider 2000 CSO
- Location: San Antonio
Re: Clutch cable
Mark, only had the vertical installation issue. However, like everyting else on our cars systems, the process needs to be understood in order to corect the issue. Pedal fork in good shape no real bends that I see creating a problem. Fire wall in good shape no crack. Gound cable in good shape, I redid the ground about a year ago.
I did get lucky with the cable inserting in the pedal fork in a short time. I do recommend a bend in the cable to help you arc the cable into the proper position and have a helper push on the cable from the engine compartment.
With all that said..... i could see how a change in tension on the cable could allow the pivot bit to bind in some way or some other obstruction/bend/rough spot on the pedal fork to disallow the pivot creating a continous bending when clutch is applied breaking new cables. Becasue of this I will check the cable. All looked good. Love my car..... Hate being stranded. I'll keep the car and my wife!
By the way, this forum is great! It has educated me and saved countless hours and dollars. always learning how much i don't know about these cars.
I did get lucky with the cable inserting in the pedal fork in a short time. I do recommend a bend in the cable to help you arc the cable into the proper position and have a helper push on the cable from the engine compartment.
With all that said..... i could see how a change in tension on the cable could allow the pivot bit to bind in some way or some other obstruction/bend/rough spot on the pedal fork to disallow the pivot creating a continous bending when clutch is applied breaking new cables. Becasue of this I will check the cable. All looked good. Love my car..... Hate being stranded. I'll keep the car and my wife!
By the way, this forum is great! It has educated me and saved countless hours and dollars. always learning how much i don't know about these cars.
Buon giro a tutti! - enjoy the ride!
82 Fiat Spider 2000
03 BMW M3
07 Chevy Suburban
82 Fiat Spider 2000
03 BMW M3
07 Chevy Suburban
- opus10583
- Posts: 861
- Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 7:13 am
- Your car is a: 1978 CS1
- Location: Westchester County, NY
Re: Clutch cable
Hi,TX82FIAT wrote:After my clutch cable snapped at a red light on Saturday I reviewed the forum, spoke to some fellow Fiat folks and repaired the cable last night. below is a picture of my broken cable. As you can see it broke right at the weld point that hooks to the fork on the clutch pedal. This is some basic stuff but I thought I would summarize some of the things I have found as well as why my cable broke at this spot.
[...]
Great post!
...Had your clutch pedal return spring been making the infamous "boing" sound?
Thanks,
Mark
...Yes; I know what it means: Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino.
DOLCETTO: 1978 CS1; 10:1, DMS, 4-2-1...
ANDIAMMO: 2012 500 ABARTH
Acquista il Biglietto; Prendere la Gita! - Hunter S. Thompson
DOLCETTO: 1978 CS1; 10:1, DMS, 4-2-1...
ANDIAMMO: 2012 500 ABARTH
Acquista il Biglietto; Prendere la Gita! - Hunter S. Thompson
- manoa matt
- Posts: 3442
- Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:28 pm
- Your car is a: 1978 Fiat 124 Spider 1800
- Location: Honolulu, Hawaii
Re: Clutch cable
Reasons why the clutch cable breaks or has some other malfunction.
5. The OEM clutch cables came with a hardened steel 1/2 round pivot barrel. The clutch cables being offered now use mild steel. The interaction between the mild steel pivot barrel and the clutch forks tends to create premature wear on the pivot barrel and clutch forks. After some wear of the parts has taken place, binding results, followed by a broken cable.
At the time I reinforced the pedal forks from bending over I installed some peel and stick teflon on the clutch forks so the pivot barrel would no longer wear out.
Think about how many times you push in the clutch on any given drive. This interface needs lubrication frequently, maybe every oil change is a good interval.
5. The OEM clutch cables came with a hardened steel 1/2 round pivot barrel. The clutch cables being offered now use mild steel. The interaction between the mild steel pivot barrel and the clutch forks tends to create premature wear on the pivot barrel and clutch forks. After some wear of the parts has taken place, binding results, followed by a broken cable.
At the time I reinforced the pedal forks from bending over I installed some peel and stick teflon on the clutch forks so the pivot barrel would no longer wear out.
Think about how many times you push in the clutch on any given drive. This interface needs lubrication frequently, maybe every oil change is a good interval.
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- Posts: 344
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:29 pm
- Your car is a: 1976 spider
Re: Clutch cable
In regard to the "boing" sound... I read this thread yesterday, looked at my clutch cable closely for the first time. It looked great and I sprayed teflon lube in the cable and I got the "boing" sound after that. Is the infamous sound a good thing, or a bad thing? I never had it before the lubrication...
Thanks,
Don
Thanks,
Don
76 Spider
St. Louis, MO
St. Louis, MO
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- Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 11:04 am
- Your car is a: 82 Fiat Spider 2000 CSO
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Re: Clutch cable
Infamous boing is typically not a good thing. It's kinda like a guitar string. However, I did not have the boing before the cable broke and I don't have it now that it is fixed. I drove around in an 83' that had the boing for 10 years with no problems and the original clutch cable. I think the metal now used on the 1/2 round pivot barrel explains a lot. if you look at the picture of the barrel supplies with the broken cable you will see a notch that was worn in it as some point. Teflon is a great idea. I put a finger tip of axel grease that was handy in the pedal fork. Teflon is a lot cleaner.
Buon giro a tutti! - enjoy the ride!
82 Fiat Spider 2000
03 BMW M3
07 Chevy Suburban
82 Fiat Spider 2000
03 BMW M3
07 Chevy Suburban
- opus10583
- Posts: 861
- Joined: Tue May 03, 2011 7:13 am
- Your car is a: 1978 CS1
- Location: Westchester County, NY
Re: Clutch cable
The "Boing" is coming from the pedal return spring/helper "spring" assembly. I gobbed on the lithium today, with little improvement.
...Yes; I know what it means: Fabbrica Italiana Automobili Torino.
DOLCETTO: 1978 CS1; 10:1, DMS, 4-2-1...
ANDIAMMO: 2012 500 ABARTH
Acquista il Biglietto; Prendere la Gita! - Hunter S. Thompson
DOLCETTO: 1978 CS1; 10:1, DMS, 4-2-1...
ANDIAMMO: 2012 500 ABARTH
Acquista il Biglietto; Prendere la Gita! - Hunter S. Thompson
- 124JOE
- Posts: 3141
- Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:11 pm
- Your car is a: 1978 124 fiat spider sport 1800
- Location: SO. WI
Re: Clutch cable
ive had clutch cable squeak for a long time and feared this would happen to me.
yesterday i finaily got a hold of white lithium grease and its not easy
i had a guy hold the pedal down and took my time.
spraying the cable were it comes out though the firewall.
he pumped,still squeaked.sprayed the fork real good,still squeaked.
sprayed the pivot point by the brake side,still squeaked.finaly sprayed the drvers side of the cluch bracket,
he pumped and the squeak was gone
i didnt see any frayed cable
firewall looks good too
today im grabing a rag and cleaning it all up"the spray"
yesterday i finaily got a hold of white lithium grease and its not easy
i had a guy hold the pedal down and took my time.
spraying the cable were it comes out though the firewall.
he pumped,still squeaked.sprayed the fork real good,still squeaked.
sprayed the pivot point by the brake side,still squeaked.finaly sprayed the drvers side of the cluch bracket,
he pumped and the squeak was gone
i didnt see any frayed cable
firewall looks good too
today im grabing a rag and cleaning it all up"the spray"
when you do everything correct people arent sure youve done anything at all (futurama)
ul1joe@yahoo.com 124joe@gmail.com
ul1joe@yahoo.com 124joe@gmail.com
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Re: Clutch cable
So why would I get the "boing" only after greasing all the joints. My firewall looks great - no cracks too. Now I wish I hadn't lubed everything...I think. What are your thoughts concerning all this... this "boing" every time I press clutch in is annoying...
76 Spider
St. Louis, MO
St. Louis, MO
- 124JOE
- Posts: 3141
- Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:11 pm
- Your car is a: 1978 124 fiat spider sport 1800
- Location: SO. WI
Re: Clutch cable
sorry to hear that.
the BOING is a good thing they said
the old grease or lack of slowed things down so it didnt make that noise
now that everything works well...
.joe
the BOING is a good thing they said
the old grease or lack of slowed things down so it didnt make that noise
now that everything works well...
.joe
when you do everything correct people arent sure youve done anything at all (futurama)
ul1joe@yahoo.com 124joe@gmail.com
ul1joe@yahoo.com 124joe@gmail.com
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- Posts: 344
- Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 9:29 pm
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Re: Clutch cable
I went to Harbor Freight and purchased a stethoscope and traced the "boing" to where the return spring connects to the metal hook that bends over the pedal assembly. I removed the spring and connection and used duct tape to wrap the ends and re-assembled and wallah... No more "boing". I'm glad to know it wasn't coming from the clutch cable and that is was re-solvable...
76 Spider
St. Louis, MO
St. Louis, MO