Headlights Killing Engine

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 10:19 pm

why not completely isolate the ign? Run a jumper from the batt to the batt side of the coil. Of course you'll have to disconnect the jumper to shut the engine off, but you may learn something about the cause

DMECMAnderson · Post by **DMECMAnderson** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:03 pm

Mark, GREAT IDEA

. I did just what you said, removed the pink inpu to the coil and tied the coil directly to the battery. Drove the car around and could not get the car to die. Then I got home, disconnected the jumper cable, put back on the "pink" input wire. Car started up, ran a few minutes and died. I rehooked up the direct battery jumper, with pink wire also, car ran OK, removed the battery jumper car died. So that removes the coil, distributor, etc. The problem appears to be in the supply from the pink wire.

My diagrams show the pink wire comes from the ignition switch to the coil, via C27 (or C31) it also appears to run to the fuse box (postion 1). which looks to be the "switched power" supply for the rest of the car.

Mike suggested earlier to reterminate the "pink" wire. I've got nothing to loose here... Any other educated guesses.

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Thu Sep 27, 2007 9:36 pm

now that you've gone this far, can you remove the fuse from #1 and try it? That way you'll remove all of the accessories from the equation. If you still have a problem you've isolated it to the switch or wire to the coil. Have you tried to disconnect your tach to make sure it's not shorting out the ign signal?

mbouse · Post by **mbouse** » Fri Sep 28, 2007 9:57 am

Then after you do as Mark suggests, go to the other end of the circuit and do what i did....merely replace the connector on the very end of the pink wire.

DMECMAnderson · Post by **DMECMAnderson** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 5:26 pm

Today I tried the shot-gun approach...

1) Replaced the connector at the coil (per Mike's suggestion).
2) Found a scab-on wire in on the pink wire running from the ignition switch before the connector, was added by previous owner to power his radio, took that out and re-butt spliced that wire. (per Dave's comments)
3) Replaced a fishy looking additional ground wire that was running from the motor to the chassis ground near the coil (must have been added by a previous owner).
4) While removing the fuse in position #1 (Per Mark's comments), on CLOSE inspection, I noticed that there was a crack near the end in the metal. Replaced this defective fuse with a new one. x

The car now runs with no issues!!!

Don't know which of these actually fixed the problem, (I suspect the cracked fuse) and I really don't care!! I figured the actual fix was < $1. Thanks for all the help and advice.

Now on to the next issue... Heater that never shuts off. I'm guessing the cables disconnected at the heater box or I've got a bad valve...

DMECMAnderson · Post by **DMECMAnderson** » Sat Sep 29, 2007 6:26 pm

Victory was short..

. Drove longer with lights on, still having problem. Looks like I fixed something but not everything....

More troubleshooting tomorrow.

kmartin83 · Post by **kmartin83** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:13 am

Dave, I didn't have any obvious signs of my ignition switch going out, other than it just dying on the side of the road. I would do the same thing -- wait a minute and then it would fire up again. If my ignition switch wasn't connecting properly, my idiot lights wouldn't come on. It was confusing because when testing the wires, everything showed okay. But the ignition switch then caused my control module to fry, so that had to be replaced as well. Since replacing my ign. switch and control module I have not had a dying problem.

DMECMAnderson · Post by **DMECMAnderson** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 6:34 pm

Thanks for the input. Given where I am, I'm concerned that the Ignition Switch could be the problem too... Hope I don't have a fried ECU, but I don't think so because the car runs fine as long as the battery is connected directly to the coil.

Yesterday when trying to troubleshoot further, I was ready for a drive when I determined my brake lights were not working. Found a faulty brake switch, parts on order, due tomorrow. It's not a good idea to drive around ATL with no brake lights, many people tend to tailgate...

I've measured voltage drops from the input to the starter to the coil at about 80 mV, that doesn't seem to be enough to cause this kind of problem. The static resistance is about 0.2-0.4 Ohms, OK not a perfect connection but not that bad. My next step will be to build a bypass to the ignition switch (a high tech hot wire kit) to see if I isolate the switch if the problem goes away....

spider2081 · Post by **spider2081** » Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:03 pm

I found the ignition switch cnnector to be one of my problems. My car stalled a couple times. I found the large connector to the ignition switch warm after about a 1/2 hour ride. When I wiggeled it the battery light came on. I cut the plug off and spliced the wires with butt connectors. Haven't had a problem since.

DMECMAnderson · Post by **DMECMAnderson** » Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:41 pm

Got the brake switch replaced (harder to screw in that I thought...). Drove around the neighborhood after dark trying to get the failure to occur. I noticed that the connector at the ignition switch was getting warm, not HOT but good and warm. Probably have a weak connection in there. But the car did not die.

Yesterday in my troubleshooting, I double checked all the connectors, found and replaced a few suspect looking fuses, and retightened the connection at the starter motor (a little more elbow grease applied)

Tomorrow off to work with the machine, usually that's far enough to die on the way. Hope I have encouraging news.

DMECMAnderson · Post by **DMECMAnderson** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:22 am

Been driving the car now for a few days between my other repairs... The problem seems to be solved (for now). My connector at the ignition switch continues to be a little too warm for me with the headlights on. I'll attack that with a little more gusto with the contact cleaner and erasers (yes those pink erasers are good for cleaning electrical contacts!) But for now it appears to be resolved.

Root cause?

I believe my problem was a combination of loose grounds at the starter, and bad contacts at the ignition switch, coupled with bad contacts and fuses in the fuse box.

Thanks everybody for helping this novice track down this problem! Weather here in ATL is great for driving, so I hope to DRIVE the car over the next few weeks/weekends rather than work on it.

So Cal Mark · Post by **So Cal Mark** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 10:32 am

that's good news! So often we look for the magic bullet; that one problem to cure all ills when the cumulative effects of several defects is the root.

DMECMAnderson · Post by **DMECMAnderson** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:10 am

I have new information. Turns out after driving the car for atleast 2 hours... THe problem occurred again. I kept on the original track. I think I may have found the answer. The ignition switch is definitely bad. The previous owner had tried to rectify this problem by moving the pink wire from the 15/54 terminal to the INT terminal. If you look carefully at the wiring diagrams, you will also note the headlights are also run off the INT terminal. Because its impossible to tear one of these switches apart.. My guess is that the wiring for the INT part of the switch is inadequate to BOTH run the pink wire and the lights. As the car runs, it heats up inside the switch causing a voltage drop to the pink wire. When I turn on the lights, it finally causes enough drop cause the coil to not fire.

All of my previous work improved the various connections where other drops may have been happening, but the voltage was still too marginal and eventually it was not sufficient.

I've ordered a new switch from Bayless. I hope this will fix the problem!!!

racydave · Post by **racydave** » Sun Oct 28, 2007 11:21 am

Dave, its good to hear that youre on track, and thanks for the feedback, to keep us all informed! The more time you spend on these kind of things, the better, youre more familliar, and it adds to your confidence as you may want to cruise! Is always better to use some "science" as opposed to guessing, A voltage drop is a good deduction !

DMECMAnderson · Post by **DMECMAnderson** » Sat Nov 03, 2007 6:36 pm

Drove the car today for quite a distance. Drove to Dahlonegha up to the north Georgia Mountains. A beautiful day

!!!

Car ran with none of the previous issues. The ignition switch appeared to be the final root cause of my problems!