hey all, so very confused by this one, thought i'de see if anyone had some insight.
got the car( 78 1800 124) running great except 1 strange thing, i have gone with the single point setup and still have the 32 adfa carb...... if i set the timing at the prescribe 10 deg, i always have a stumble from idle.it goes away after the first rev. but if i advance the timing to about 15 and its all good. just a little worried about the advance on the other end if i do this? any thoughts... just want to make sure my info is correct with the 10 deg base?
confused
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baltobernie
- Patron 2020
- Posts: 3466
- Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:00 pm
- Your car is a: 1973 Spider [sold]
- Location: Baltimore, MD
Re: confused
The second set of points are (were) only used to start the car.
By "on the other end", do you mean total advance, after the centrifugal kicks in? You can advance timing until the onset of knocking or detonation, then back off a little from there. I don't think there's any hard and fast number. A lot depends on the grade of fuel you're using, your altitude, mixture, and so on. Of course, it's always better to be a little on the safe side, as you don't know what driving conditions you may be experiencing later.
Do you have a timing light? Is the centrifugal advance working? If it's not, the light won't "move" when the RPMs increase above 2-3k. Maybe that's why you need to crank in more initial advance, to compensate for non-working or ineffectual centrifugal advance.
When we set the timing in my modified 1800, we had no point of reference. So we kept advancing until we stopped making any more power on the dyno, then returned the advance to the point where we first achieved that number. I neither know nor care what that number is; it's just a paint mark to align.
By "on the other end", do you mean total advance, after the centrifugal kicks in? You can advance timing until the onset of knocking or detonation, then back off a little from there. I don't think there's any hard and fast number. A lot depends on the grade of fuel you're using, your altitude, mixture, and so on. Of course, it's always better to be a little on the safe side, as you don't know what driving conditions you may be experiencing later.
Do you have a timing light? Is the centrifugal advance working? If it's not, the light won't "move" when the RPMs increase above 2-3k. Maybe that's why you need to crank in more initial advance, to compensate for non-working or ineffectual centrifugal advance.
When we set the timing in my modified 1800, we had no point of reference. So we kept advancing until we stopped making any more power on the dyno, then returned the advance to the point where we first achieved that number. I neither know nor care what that number is; it's just a paint mark to align.
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bulldog4444
Re: confused
+1 on that answer. I have always set my timing "by ear" and nothing more. The next step would be to ditch that last set of points and get an electronic ignition. Time it by the same method. 
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majicwrench
Re: confused
Most cars will run a bit better with a few more degrees of timing than is stock. Now it is more likely to ping/detonate however.
Timing "by ear" is not advised. Timing with dyno great fun. Unfortunately most of us do not have dyno.
Set it at 15 and have fun with it!
Timing "by ear" is not advised. Timing with dyno great fun. Unfortunately most of us do not have dyno.
Set it at 15 and have fun with it!
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verycoldfiat
Re: confused
Thanks everyone, some great stuff there, I have just opted to set it by ear and to heck with it, the only one killing me is getting a stable idle out of it, just can't win with the middle ground, as in hot verses warm, I can get it tim amazing at one and choppy the other, any thought on a decent place to pick up the electronic ignition setup??
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baltobernie
- Patron 2020
- Posts: 3466
- Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:00 pm
- Your car is a: 1973 Spider [sold]
- Location: Baltimore, MD
Re: confused
What carburetor are you using?
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RoyBatty
- Posts: 852
- Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2010 11:44 pm
- Your car is a: 1975 124 Spider - 1971 124 Sport Coupe
- Location: Locust Grove, VA
Re: confused
I just went through the same sort of thing with my '75. A couple of weeks ago the wire from the negative side of the coil to the points shorted thru it's insulation to ground. This was the start of a cascade of problems which I think hit me all at once just to humble me. After I repaired the worn wire the car still did not run right. So I went on troubleshooting. I opened the top of my 32ADFA and found LOTS of red granular corrosion in the top of the float chamber and a cellulose material in the primary emulsion tube.
After making sure all was correct with my ignition and kitting the old carb and then installing the new one from Allisons.
I still had a seemingly rich condition after coming to a stop for a signal or a sign. If I didn't rev the engine a bit before trying to drive off, the engine would stumble a bit and pop out the exhaust. At times it would act as if the fire went completely out in the cylinders as if there was no fuel or ignition as I was moving away from a stop. Then as I feathered the throttle it would give a big BANG out the exhaust and then run OK after that.
I tried resetting the idle mixture and RPM and rechecked everything else to no avail.
I then gave a rethink of the ignition timing. I reset it from 10 degrees to about 15-18 degrees.
ALL IS WELL! No pinging or indication of detonation or pre-ignition.
The power is fantastic. And the engine is running like a song!
So to recap. I ended up installing a new cap, rotor, coil, plug wires and plugs, a pertronix module (it works GREAT),
kitted the old carb, then installed a new one just because.
Oh and if the Pertronix MR-LS1 is what you are looking for, it can be purchased either from Auto Ricambi or Summit of even a local NAPA store. But I think Summit will get it to you quickest.
After making sure all was correct with my ignition and kitting the old carb and then installing the new one from Allisons.
I still had a seemingly rich condition after coming to a stop for a signal or a sign. If I didn't rev the engine a bit before trying to drive off, the engine would stumble a bit and pop out the exhaust. At times it would act as if the fire went completely out in the cylinders as if there was no fuel or ignition as I was moving away from a stop. Then as I feathered the throttle it would give a big BANG out the exhaust and then run OK after that.
I tried resetting the idle mixture and RPM and rechecked everything else to no avail.
I then gave a rethink of the ignition timing. I reset it from 10 degrees to about 15-18 degrees.
ALL IS WELL! No pinging or indication of detonation or pre-ignition.
The power is fantastic. And the engine is running like a song!
So to recap. I ended up installing a new cap, rotor, coil, plug wires and plugs, a pertronix module (it works GREAT),
kitted the old carb, then installed a new one just because.
Oh and if the Pertronix MR-LS1 is what you are looking for, it can be purchased either from Auto Ricambi or Summit of even a local NAPA store. But I think Summit will get it to you quickest.
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verycoldfiat
Re: confused
thanks all, well. just drove it 2000 miles to vegas just to make sure i cleaned everything out......turns out what i had for a problem was a faulty condenser, which gave out 20 miles into the journey and stumped me for 2.5 hours on the side of the road. however ran like a champ all the way here..... that is till i found a pothole in vegas that sent a rock into the tranny tailhousing, doh!!!!