so so so many problems... head gasket. timing, backfiring...

[radiks32]

I'm getting to the point where i'm ready to take my car to the scrap yard. I just got my engine back in my car (80/81, FI) and I cant get it to start. I put an 1800 head on it, and I'm wondering if it had bent valves.... prolly should have checked that before putting it on. It cranks over and puffs/backfires, and I got it to run horribly for about 2 minutes. it chugged a lot while it was running and the engine was shaking quite a bit.

I'm wondering if its the head gasket too since after i cranked it a bit, it spat oil/coolant out of everywhere it could. I checked my head bolts (which I torqued before putting the engine back in (55 ft lbs)) and they were nowhere near tight enough. I cranked them back down, and it stopped blowing steam out the coolant tank, and smoke out the tail pipe. Unfortunately it still wont start.

Any suggestions short of re-rebuilding the engine would be very much appreciated..... this bites.

[So Cal Mark]

the question is really too broad to answer properly. You stuck a used head on your block, were the surfaces cleaned properly? Is the cam timing correct? Were the head bolts cleaned and bolt holes chased? If the head bolts weren't tight, did you use a torque wrench? Where did oil and coolant blow out of? Have you checked compression?

[radiks32]

The surfaces were cleaned, and the new head was not warped(within .002 across the face) the cam timing is correct (as far as i know) the bolts were cleaned, and the bolt holes were chased. I did use a torque wrench. the oil went into the coolant and vise versa, and out of the sides of the head (milky crap on the ground). I don't have a compression tester...

I've been looking around a lot, and since I'm fairly inexperienced with timing, I'm wondering if my ignition is to blame (as well as the rest of it.)

Sorry about the breadth of the question, Its kind of the reason for the post.... I usually do alright trouble shooting the more obvious ones.

Thanks for the quick reply by the way.

[narfire]

Where do you hang your hat? perhaps if a member is nearby that could help? All the timing marks lined up just right? Sounds like it was close. I know it sounds stupid but myself and I'm sure others have mixed up the plug leads,check to confirm. Hows the spark? The back of the rotor should line up with a slight indent in the casing of the dist. That is your lining up with #4 peg in the cap. Perhaps when you started it with a loose head you ended up with some coolant in the combustion chamber and the plugs are/were wet. Pull plugs anyway and see about spark.
Be patient and cross off all the posibilities as you go. It should start. I don't believe the 2L is an interference engine so the valves should be ok I'd think. The cam wheels and crank were at TDC when the belt went on and no skipped tooth when you pulled the belt on the wheels?
Good luck
Chris
Also when you put it back together, we hope you had the aux wheel mark at the 1:30 position. I know you have fuel injected but the aux shaft still has a lobe on the rear that could contact the #2 bearing cap if not aligned in that position. Some will cut the lobe off and is not a worry then.

[radiks32]

"Also when you put it back together, we hope you had the aux wheel mark at the 1:30 position. I know you have fuel injected but the aux shaft still has a lobe on the rear that could contact the #2 bearing cap if not aligned in that position. Some will cut the lobe off and is not a worry then."

didnt know about that one..... hoping thats not the problem, seems like that wouldnt keep it from starting.... there would just be a loud crack, and then nothing would work at all... right?

I checked the plugs, the #1/2 cyl plugs were black, the 3/4 plugs were clean. I'm guessing that happened while the head gasket was loose. I'm going to get some new plugs in the morning and try this whole thing over again.

Thanks for the help. I'll check the aux shaft in the morning too

[narfire]

didnt know about that one..... hoping thats not the problem, seems like that wouldnt keep it from starting.... there would just be a loud crack, and then nothing would work at all... right?

More like a loud BANG at start up and the shaft will break. Have to then get the shaft out and the broken end and replace. If the belt slips while driving and the shaft and cap makes contact then a real loud bang and evidently can blow out the side of the block. Kinda important part of putting the belt back on.
It would not prevent the car from starting . The shaft drives the oil pump and a mechanical fuel pump if installed.
When you have all the plugs out, its a good time to make sure the TDC marks are aligned. When the car is in neutral and the belt to the water pump is snug, I can pull on that belt and turn the engine to get all the marks aligned. I'll use the starter to get close and the belt pull to finish. You should see the hole in the back of the cam wheels and these should line up with a small raised rib on the cam tower housing. When these are lined up,take a look at the crank. Push the water hoses back and you'll see the pointer (long point) should then be lined up with the small "nick" on the crank wheel. I found if you are one tooth out the car will run but it runs better when all is aligned. If you have a bit of white paint,try and put a blob on the crank mark. When lined up,make sure the dist rotor is about to contact the #4 pin in the cap and install. Snug the dist down so it won't move but you can turn with some effort and have at er. Running like a top in no time.
Chris

[azruss]

sounds like what happens when you set the timing to #1 instead of #4 cylinder.

[TulsaSpider]

What is the history of the 1800 head? perhaps it is cracked? It makes no sense that after the head was torqued it was loose???

[radiks32]

I've begun to wonder if what i'm remembering torquing down were the cam tower bolts. Its on its way to running, needs an oil change and some fine tuning, but it does run.... roughly. I redid the timing to tdc, and it looks like the intake AND the exhaust were advanced by one notch. I think it must have skipped a tooth from hitting the aux shaft. The shaft feels fine, and the engine cranks over just like it should, no funny noises. Is it possible for that shaft to be broken and have the engine sound alright?

[narfire]

Is it possible for that shaft to be broken and have the engine sound alright?

If you heard a bang at start up then I'd be checking the shaft. The shaft has two bearing suraces,and should be supported by both those points. The one broken one I have seen and another recently posted somewheres here, broke just in front of the rear bearing so the shaft was suported by the one surface. This is bad as now that end could be wobbling about(perhaps a tiny amount to start) as the shaft spins and eventualy will give you even more grief. The engine will sound alright for awhile in my opinion,but over the long term...all bets are off.
Chris

[radiks32]

I will definitely check the shaft in that case. I didn't hear a bang at startup (that wasnt a backfire), but it did blow a lot of smoke. Now its blowing smoke out the tail pipe and I'm wondering if its actually burning oil from the crank case, or if its just burning off the crap thats accumulated in the tailpipe. Has anyone had this happen?

P.S. You were right about it turning over like a clock when i got everything lined up Narfire.

P.P.S. Thank you everyone for your help, this car would have been at the scrap yard by now if it wasnt for you guys/gals

[radiks32]

nevermind that last post about the tail pipe.... its definitely the head gasket. I was really hoping and praying it wasnt, but what can you do. time to order a new one from C Obert and take my engine apart again.
Its running great all things considered.

[radiks32]

on a related note. does anyone have a radiator that doesnt leak that they would be willing to sell. I know using a used radiator is just asking for trouble, but I dont have 3-700 dollars to spend on a new one.

[TulsaSpider]

Well good news, sorta, and yes it will prolly smoke for a while! Take your time and make sure everything is good!Maybe you could have your radiator re-cored cheaper?

[jsab]

One other thing to consider if the head gasket is leaking after you replaced it is that the head bolts have stretched, and are now to long. I work on a lot of BMW's at my shop besides Fiats, Lancias and Alfas, and we always replace the head bolts if they have been used more than twice.