Empi 32/36 DFEV - Too Rich?

[majicwrench]

Fresh gas is always a good first step. Only thing vac leak will really affect is idle. Get a long hunk of vacuum hose, stick one end in your ear, move other end around suspect areas. Realisticly vacuum leak is not your issue.
Use idle mix screw and attempt to smooth idle. A tad too rich (screw out) is better than a tad too lean.
You cannot run plugs that sooty and expect good results. Clean or replace plugs. Do not clean with a wire brush. If you do not have the proper sandblaster, get new plugs.
Choke should be wide open within 1 to 2 minutes of starting car, is it??
Open air cleaner is not an issue
Keith

[WBPDX]

I've checked for vac leaks using a spray bottle of water, I was not able to find any. The idle is perfectly level, but it does miss a little; I've set the mix, and it doesn't seem to make the miss go away.

Choke starts opening within 1 or 2 minutes and is fully opened in maybe 3?

I'll try new plugs I guess...

[WBPDX]

Here is what I did tonight:
- Checked valve clearances cold - All good, Intake are just a tiny fraction (less than .05mm) wider than the spec.
- Re-torqued head bolts; was surprised that some of them definitely needed more.
- Drained probably 3 gallons of gas (bringing level to 1/4 tank or less) and added 1.5 gallons of fresh gas, keeping the level right around 1/4 tank; previously there was a 1/2 tank or more in the car.
- Checked timing of cams and crank AGAIN - Perfect
- Checked timing again - Still 5 deg Adv
- Checked timing advance again - still seems to work great
- Charged battery up a bit

So the only things I changed were the head bolts and the fuel level.

Let car warm up, and tried to take it on a test drive - car ran WORSE. Backfiring earlier, less interested in accelerating.

So: Fuel Pump? It is REALLY noisy, and is one of the first things I noticed about the car, but I am not sure if that is normal for an external pump mounted in a place with NO insulation.

One more interesting note: I see new pumps are rated at 42GPH: That is nearly 3/4s of a gallon a minute. Mine is not pumping anywhere near that rate; it would take it probably 5 minutes to pump 3/4s of a gallon.

I think I am going to run out and get one along with a new set of plugs...

(One thing I was thinking about tonight with all the controversy over wiring the electric pumps to the ignition... Do you realize that every FI motorcycle on the road works with the fuel pump wired to the ignition accessory position? Motorcycles crash quite a lot. Something to think about.)

[WBPDX]

I picked up a "Mr. Gasket" brand pump, only to get home and find nothing but AWFUL reviews of it.

Autozone only has the same pump. Is there a pump I can get at Napa that will be better? I tried their website and didn't turn up anything.

I don't want to bother with something that is only going to work for 5 minutes or 5 days...

[TulsaSpider]

The carb only requires 3 psi. I doubt this is your issue. I recently switched over to an electric and got it at advanced. They have a 3 to 5 psi model. I was having some issues with my new motor until I tried the champion plugs. They made quite a difference
What ignition are you running? Points? I am running a new 2L with lots of performance parts with the 32/36 and I am now wondering if it isn't too small myself...

[WBPDX]

I am going to try getting the tank as full as possible (I can't drive it to the station, so I have to fill with cans) to see if there is any difference, before I replace the pump.

I also picked up a set of Champion plugs, so I'll try those as well.

Ignition is electronic, set to about 5 deg advance. I have no performance parts. Just the 1800 intake manifold.

I'd still appreciate advice\info on fuel pump models if anyone has it... There seem to be two different versions of the 2-3.5psi Mr Gasket pump, and the one I got is definitely in the "5 minutes of working time" category...

[TulsaSpider]

Also make sure the pump is connected to a switched 12v source that is not on the ignition circuit! I inadvertently did this and it caused a very weak spark

[WBPDX]

It is connected to the ignition. For a test, I will connect it directly to the battery.

My car already has a brown-wire fix in place however; which I think would negate the ignition switch wiring?

It's 9AM, time to get crackin' and annoy the neighbors! I will post up some results soon.

It would be GREAT to get it running properly today; I could actually go give the emissions test a shot, and get plates...

[WBPDX]

Added more fresh gas - A slight improvement, but can't say with certainty it was the gas.

Wired the pump directly to the battery - No change in running, but the pump did sound a little better.

Changed out the plugs for new, inexpensive Champion plugs - WOW. Huge difference. Only stumbles\pops out the carb when under a lot of load and trying to accelerate quickly, but the car is actually drivable now. I am assuming this is because the plugs were fresh and had nothing to do with the brand.

The Champions are getting quite sooty after a few laps around the block as well.

I won't speculate this time - I will just ask for more advice.

[majicwrench]

Bump the timing to 10 or 12 deg advanced.
Do the "plug laying on the head test" again with any cylinder and an old plug. Open the gap way way up, .080 or so. See if it will still jump gap, should be nice fat blue spark.
OR remove coil wire from cap, hold 1/4" from head, and have someone crank engine. Spark should jump. THis is a good way to get curly hair too.

[WBPDX]

Will do. Running to the DMV for temp tags before one of the neighbors calls the cops, then I will try. I didn't even think about rechecking the timing to see if it ran better with more advance now...

[WBPDX]

Whoooo! Gettin' somewhere!

Advancing the timing to approx 11 turned out to be the sweet spot. It now idles at 850 really nicely!

No more popping out the carb under load, but there is a definite stumble moving swiftly from 2-3k.

Got back and did the spark plug check... My thickest welding gloves weren't enough to keep me from getting zapped multiple times.

Bad news is: The spark is super weak yellow. I closed up the gap and used the best ground available, and it was still weak\yellow.

Advice?

[So Cal Mark]

with the oem electronic systems, a failing module will cause backfiring under a load. Have you looked at the pickup unit in the dist?

[WBPDX]

Have not looked at the pickup; I left the diz mostly alone during this project. Can you tell me what to look for?

Is there a way to test the ignition module? I might replace it anyway, I don't think it would hurt to have a spare...

How can I test the coil? I tried searching and couldn't find the ohms\specs for the 79.

[manoa matt]

The mechanical fuel pumps are "highly reliable" and don't fail often, but when they do, they give plenty of advance warning unlike an electrical pump.

I have both on my car. The electric pump is wired to a switch under the dash and the key must be on. I turn the ignition key to the on position, flip the switch and use the electric pump to prime the float bowl. After the electric pump quiets down I flip off the switch and start the car. Starts on the first crank every time.

The test for the ignition module is in the Fiat factory service manual.

Here is the test for the coil: http://www.international-auto.com/fiat- ... n-coil.cfm