What is this and where should the tube from here go to?
- KalamazooJohnny
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:09 pm
- Your car is a: 1976 spider 1977 spider 1965 1100D
- Location: Kalamazoo, MI
What is this and where should the tube from here go to?
This is on the side wall of my 77. I just noticed that there should be a hose running from it to somewhere, but I don't know where. Maybe the hose in the front of my carb that has a bolt plugging it? Anyone know what those 2 things are on the side of the engine compartment? I am assuming it is something to do with emissions...but?
"Get used to people calling it an MG. Hardly anybody recalls Fiats, but people remember MGs because they once saw one on fire." -Corey Farley, Autoweek January 20, 2003
76spider
77spider
65 1100D
76spider
77spider
65 1100D
- kmead
- Posts: 1069
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:24 pm
- Your car is a: 1969 850 SC 1970 124 SC 85 X19
- Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Re: What is this and where should the tube from here go to?
Unless you are doing a OE restoration, that object and any hoses attached to it should be removed from your car and anything those tubes are attached to should have proper sealing caps applied to them. They are related to emission controls that likely do little if anything anymore.
Karl
1969 Fiat 850 Sports Coupe
1970 Fiat 124 Sports Coupe
1985 Bertone X1/9
1969 Fiat 850 Sports Coupe
1970 Fiat 124 Sports Coupe
1985 Bertone X1/9
Re: What is this and where should the tube from here go to?
I disagree with the previous post. How can you just delete something you have no idea what it does?? Emission controls are not all bad, some of them do wonderful things, not only for the air that we all breath, but also for gas mileage and driveablity. Find out what it is, then make a decision like that.
Keith
Keith
Re: What is this and where should the tube from here go to?
from the pic, it looks like the other end of that hose is connected incorrectly. It looks like it's attached to the egr thermovalve
- divace73
- Posts: 1380
- Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:59 am
- Your car is a: 1980 Fiat 124 Spider Silver
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: What is this and where should the tube from here go to?
When I see fiats with all the smog stuff it freaks me out a bit and glad I ended up getting a FI model
Cheers David
-=1980 silver Fiat 124 Spider=-
If you want to see pics of my car (and other random stuff) >>click here<< OR
see my >>You tube channel<<
-=1980 silver Fiat 124 Spider=-
If you want to see pics of my car (and other random stuff) >>click here<< OR
see my >>You tube channel<<
Re: What is this and where should the tube from here go to?
the 70s were a tough era for all auto manufacturers to pass smog regulations !When I see fiats with all the smog stuff it freaks me out a bit and glad I ended up getting a FI model
Re: What is this and where should the tube from here go to?
All cars of that era came with an underhood sticker showing where all the hoses went( we called em "maps") but the stickers are usually not there at this point. I do have some old books that show the diagrams if you would like I can try and dig one up and get it to you.
Re: What is this and where should the tube from here go to?
Yup, the sticker on my car is gone. I can see where it used to be, but it's nothing but leftover residue now. I'm about to tackle something similar, as I'm getting ready to put my carb back on. There are hoses everywhere, not sure what they all are or where they go. Fun, fun, fun...majicwrench wrote:All cars of that era came with an underhood sticker showing where all the hoses went( we called em "maps") but the stickers are usually not there at this point. I do have some old books that show the diagrams if you would like I can try and dig one up and get it to you.
- kmead
- Posts: 1069
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:24 pm
- Your car is a: 1969 850 SC 1970 124 SC 85 X19
- Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Re: What is this and where should the tube from here go to?
In regards to the response about removing emissions controls, I generally agree they should not be removed. I never advocate removing emissions hardware from fuel injection cars as they do tend to have a positive effect on reducing emissions and have little or no effect on drivability.
These parts from that time period don't really fulfill any of those things, particularly nearly forty years on.
As I didn't explain what they are and what they do previously, I will now. They are electrovalves that use switches on the transmission and the clutch pedal to effect idle in certain running conditions. There is also an additional switch in the circuit which is used to test the system for proper function and to set up the system to work properly. To properly adjust the system you do need access to a CO meter.
One if them holds the throttle open and closes the choke plate on the primary throat of the carburetor to keep rpm up during up and down shifts between 3rd, 4th and 5th gears. It will hold the rpm during those shifts at 1600 rpm while the clutch pedal is actuated and you are shifting between the gears. (there is a switch on the pedal and on the transmission to sense when these things are happening).
To test whether the system is working properly warm up the car and then with the car revving at or about 2500rpm, press and hold the the test button down on the fender wall next to the electrovalves and then let the rpm drop. If the system is working properly it will drop to 1600 rpm. When you release the test button the rpm should drop to your normal idle speed in 1-3 seconds.
Personally I have always hated the various solutions to reduce NOx emissions that hold the throttle open which has ranged from this semi complicated solution to simple dashpots all make driving these cars less enjoyable.
If the system is not working, I would plug the vacuum connections on the manifold and carburetor side to isolate the electrovalves.
The other controls the EGR system which I would bet has a frozen solid EGR valve which no amount of vacuum will ever open again.
All of the manuals I have show hose layouts for these parts so I would suggest picking up a Haynes, Clymer or a factory manual to reference for these sorts of questions. They are cheap and generally do not suffer from having opinons like most of us do.
These parts from that time period don't really fulfill any of those things, particularly nearly forty years on.
As I didn't explain what they are and what they do previously, I will now. They are electrovalves that use switches on the transmission and the clutch pedal to effect idle in certain running conditions. There is also an additional switch in the circuit which is used to test the system for proper function and to set up the system to work properly. To properly adjust the system you do need access to a CO meter.
One if them holds the throttle open and closes the choke plate on the primary throat of the carburetor to keep rpm up during up and down shifts between 3rd, 4th and 5th gears. It will hold the rpm during those shifts at 1600 rpm while the clutch pedal is actuated and you are shifting between the gears. (there is a switch on the pedal and on the transmission to sense when these things are happening).
To test whether the system is working properly warm up the car and then with the car revving at or about 2500rpm, press and hold the the test button down on the fender wall next to the electrovalves and then let the rpm drop. If the system is working properly it will drop to 1600 rpm. When you release the test button the rpm should drop to your normal idle speed in 1-3 seconds.
Personally I have always hated the various solutions to reduce NOx emissions that hold the throttle open which has ranged from this semi complicated solution to simple dashpots all make driving these cars less enjoyable.
If the system is not working, I would plug the vacuum connections on the manifold and carburetor side to isolate the electrovalves.
The other controls the EGR system which I would bet has a frozen solid EGR valve which no amount of vacuum will ever open again.
All of the manuals I have show hose layouts for these parts so I would suggest picking up a Haynes, Clymer or a factory manual to reference for these sorts of questions. They are cheap and generally do not suffer from having opinons like most of us do.
Karl
1969 Fiat 850 Sports Coupe
1970 Fiat 124 Sports Coupe
1985 Bertone X1/9
1969 Fiat 850 Sports Coupe
1970 Fiat 124 Sports Coupe
1985 Bertone X1/9
- KalamazooJohnny
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:09 pm
- Your car is a: 1976 spider 1977 spider 1965 1100D
- Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Re: What is this and where should the tube from here go to?
Didn't mean to ruffle feathers. I am not opposed to ditching the stuff I don't need, I just don't know what any of them do. I would like to see such a "map" of all these hoses if someone has one.
Its a 77, 1800 with a carb as seen in the photo, not FI.
Mark, the opposite hose Goes back between the carb and the engine, there is a little thing - looks like its sticking out of the intake manifold that has two hoses coming off it, and this is one. Is that what you are saying is incorrect?
Thanks.
So does anyone know where these two things are suppose to connect to?
Its a 77, 1800 with a carb as seen in the photo, not FI.
Mark, the opposite hose Goes back between the carb and the engine, there is a little thing - looks like its sticking out of the intake manifold that has two hoses coming off it, and this is one. Is that what you are saying is incorrect?
Thanks.
So does anyone know where these two things are suppose to connect to?
"Get used to people calling it an MG. Hardly anybody recalls Fiats, but people remember MGs because they once saw one on fire." -Corey Farley, Autoweek January 20, 2003
76spider
77spider
65 1100D
76spider
77spider
65 1100D
- KalamazooJohnny
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 12:09 pm
- Your car is a: 1976 spider 1977 spider 1965 1100D
- Location: Kalamazoo, MI
Re: What is this and where should the tube from here go to?
And if I get rid of the electrovalves, which I think I would like to, what do I need to do to the wiring?
"Get used to people calling it an MG. Hardly anybody recalls Fiats, but people remember MGs because they once saw one on fire." -Corey Farley, Autoweek January 20, 2003
76spider
77spider
65 1100D
76spider
77spider
65 1100D
- kmead
- Posts: 1069
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:24 pm
- Your car is a: 1969 850 SC 1970 124 SC 85 X19
- Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Re: What is this and where should the tube from here go to?
You can leave it in place or prune it back. I will try and scan a few of the pages and I can send make them available on my Dropbox.KalamazooJohnny wrote:And if I get rid of the electrovalves, which I think I would like to, what do I need to do to the wiring?
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3359580/Emissio ... agrams.pdf
Karl
1969 Fiat 850 Sports Coupe
1970 Fiat 124 Sports Coupe
1985 Bertone X1/9
1969 Fiat 850 Sports Coupe
1970 Fiat 124 Sports Coupe
1985 Bertone X1/9
Re: What is this and where should the tube from here go to?
All sorts of good things happen when you hold the throttle open slightly on decell, which is why almost every car made--chev, ford, chry, datsun, fiat, subaru-- had some sort of dashpot device starting way back when. OK, some of the system got overly complicated, but they all do good things with no real negative effects.
Keith
Keith
Re: What is this and where should the tube from here go to?
throttle dashpots do not control or affect Nox. Nox is formed at high cylinder temps, not during decel.
- kmead
- Posts: 1069
- Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 9:24 pm
- Your car is a: 1969 850 SC 1970 124 SC 85 X19
- Location: Grand Rapids, MI
Re: What is this and where should the tube from here go to?
As I said: if the system is working or one wishes to fix it if it is not working, by all means keep the systems. If they are not working and likely causing vacuum leaks or other issues with the car, there is no harm in removing it. Particularly on a car in Michigan which doesn't have emissions testing.majicwrench wrote:All sorts of good things happen when you hold the throttle open slightly on decell, which is why almost every car made--chev, ford, chry, datsun, fiat, subaru-- had some sort of dashpot device starting way back when. OK, some of the system got overly complicated, but they all do good things with no real negative effects.
Keith
As for throttle hang during shifting, although all sorts of good things apparently happen when the throttle is held open on decel, most folks complain about it. Have a look at VW or Honda forums. particularly ones that deal with the new Civic Si or the GTI or most any other car that offers a manual transmission. This is unnoticeable on an automatic transmission car, but on a manual transmission car it is exceedingly annoying.
Karl
1969 Fiat 850 Sports Coupe
1970 Fiat 124 Sports Coupe
1985 Bertone X1/9
1969 Fiat 850 Sports Coupe
1970 Fiat 124 Sports Coupe
1985 Bertone X1/9