timing belt replacement checklist help please

[81SPIDERMATT]

81 spider... been doing all the stuff i thought it needed.. rebuilt calipers new rotors panhard rod ball joints alignment and now i am ready to do what my research says needs to be done.... timing belt and hoses and seals... car runs great.. but i would bet money the seals are leaking as i have wet lower engine (oily wet).. i have done a lot of research and with what i have acomplished so far not knowing anything i am ready to try to do this.. because i understand that if the timing belt goes things will happen that are beyond my capabilities
i have collected what i believe i will need... 1.5" socket... long 1/2 extensions... impact gun...chain wrench.. bandades and spare plasma... below is a list of what i am saving for to order... please let me know if i am missing anything... my car has become my daily driver so i am hoping to do this all at once to reduce down time...

43446 Bearing, Timing Belt Tensioner
17751 Gasket Set, Complete Engine
19263 Gasket, Oil Pan
4385781 Hose, Lower Radiator
217314 Hose, Thermostat to head
4334987 Hose, Thermostat to Water Pump
34829 Hose, Upper Radiator
3660 Seal, Auxiliary Shaft/Camshaft Front
5466 Seal, Front Crankshaft
1739 Timing Belt
1060 Vee Belt, Fits 77-85 with alt on drivers side.
1300 Water Pump
4394393 Water Pump Pulley
41887040 Water Tee Gasket
8206 caliper spring set

this is all IAP catalog part numbers

oil pan and caliper springs are for another day

i am of the mindset (some will agree..some will not) that while you are there go ahead and replace... car does not get hot but water pump seems like a good idea while i am there

am i missing anything

i really like the idea of marks aluminum radiator.. if i go that route i will adjust list as far as hoses go

i do have a couple of questions though... i see alot of pics without the timing belt cover on... is that just because it is just been worked on or do you leave them off... what would be the advantage or disadvantage of this.... is there a test physical or visual test to see if the timing belt NEEDS to be replaced (i know it should because i have no idea when how old it is ..110k on the odometer) ..just curious for in the future

hope this post finds everyone with melting snow and rising temps.... thanks for all your help..... matt

[narfire]

Timing belt... if you don't know the history..change it. Also have a look at the rubber flex disk that joins the driveline from the trans to the driveshaft. They get dry and cracked with age and will/can let go with catastrophic results to the trans tunnel. Fairly simple change over as well. When the alt belt is off, is there any "up/down" movement in the water pump shaft,any leaks?
As for timing belt cover.. I have mine on as my engine seems to weep oil and it then ends up in a line in the engine bay and accross the underside of the hood. I have seen plenty with the covers off and it does look sharp. I just can't seem to get my engines as tight as theirs, perhaps another dozen re-builds and I'll be close.
Your list seems complete. Perhaps check the dist as well,the wires from the pick up get brittle with age and will break killing the engine at the worst possible time. After putting the cam towers back on, perhaps check the clearances between the cam and the shims and see if they are still close to spec.
Do you have new spark plugs as well? How are the injector hoses from the rail to the injectors? they crack with age as well and the high pressure fuel can drip onto the starter or alternator,two place that don't like gas/fumes.
These are some of the things I have changed out on my 80 FI.
Perhaps others will chime in as well.
Chris

[81SPIDERMATT]

po told me to replaace center drive shaft support bearing and while getting help from you guys was told to also replace the donut.. done and done... no more rattle thumping under load that i had before.... sparks plugs.. thanks you great idea... when you say wires do you mean spark plug wires or something inside the distributor itself???... juut had to replace the ignition rotor..apparently the distributor got loose and as it wiggled off broke the contact on the rotor and it did happen at worse possible time... but 10 dollar fix and i was back on the road... as for ""clearances between the cam and the shims and see if they are still close to spec. "" i have no idea what that means and i am sure it will be a question that will pop up when i am in the middle of reassembly.... going to go ahead and buy the water pump..if there is no movement in the shaft should i not replace and keep it as a spare or just do it while i am there??? as i do not want to not have it if i need it..hoping to get the job done over a weekend... also just replaced the little hose that i think feeds the injectors ( about a 3 inch hose ) as it was squirting gas on the block and front injector.(kinda scary)..glad the list looks complete to you....trying to do my research well and not be a pain to everyone .... just need a little confidence that i am on the right track.... thanks very much

[narfire]

The wires from the dist start inside at the pick-up and change to the white wire you see leaving and conecting at the coil sink. They can get brittle under the dist. cap with time. Glad the donut is done Sounds like one of the injector hoses was leaking and you got that sorted,just watch the others as they could start dripping any time now as well, yes, scary thought if it ignites down there.
Clearances for the cams/shims would be checked once the cam towers are back on. A feeler gauge between the shim and the cam lobe will let you know where you are there. I believe specs were 17 thou intake and 18-19 exhaust side. Close is good too.
Sounds like you're going to have a well sorted car.
Chris

[majicwrench]

I didn't see where the cam towers were coming off, so I am confused (normal condition BTW). Valve adjustment, cam towers really don't have anythign to do with timing belt job.

Your list is fine, but do you really need a full gasket set?? A water pump pulley? An oil pan gasket??

Wires in dist have nothing to do with timing belt job, but you could certainly take a peak.

Personally, as a professional mechanic, I am a huge fan of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" If you start replacing every part that could concievably go bad you are going to be there forever. "Jack up the radiator cap and slip a new car under it" we used to say.

Changing belt EXCELLENT idea condsidering you do not know it's history. Change seals if they are leaking. Water pump, if it is loose or noisy, sure, change it. "Loose or noisy" is judgement call, tough if you don't do em all the time.

Leave your timng cover there. It offers some protection for the belt, and for you if you are under the hood. Leave it.

You didn't mention a repair manual...although you can print off the internet most of what you need.
Keith

[narfire]

3660 Seal, Auxiliary Shaft/Camshaft Front

I figured if he is getting seals I'd believe he'd be changing them at some point and I'd guess the towers come off to do this properly.I remove the towers anyway. Just sounds like Matt was trying to try and make the car a bit more reliable as he is going to use it for a daily driver. Hate to have breakdowns on the way to or from work unless its downhill both ways

[81SPIDERMATT]

have not pulled the timing belt cover yet..just trying to get all my ducks in a row.... the bottom of the engine is wet with what looks to be oil... not enough to puddle but it appears to be coming from under timing belt cover... that is why i decided to do the seals while i am in there...from what i have read it is a probability.... i think i got very lucky with the purchase..colorado car its whole life... rails and shock towers are rust free..replaced the carpet and everything underneath looked very good. little cancer around passenger rear wheel well... not planning a show car (unless the lotto kicks in a few bucks) .. but i love it so much i am trying do do what i think will make it reliable... as for the full gasket set... the oil panseams to be seeping oil and i have puddles around the spark plugs... guessing (and i am guessing) what i would call the valve cover gaskets may be leaky also.... as far as manuals have not researched that... i have the wiring diagram and tuning book... both from artigue.. AWSOME... would love some advice for manuals..i have read that some are good but only for certain projects where another will be better for other things... would love to know what you think would be the best on for this project and i will get that one first... imagine that i will own them all at some point... pictures do alot for me as well..i get lost in the jargan of the mechanic vocabulary..but i am determined to learn... thanks so much for all your input...... matt

[majicwrench]

Oil pan not fun to change, not a dependability issue, if you are trying to get this done in a timely fashion leave pan alone and do belt.
Seals come out just fine without removing cam towers. BUT if you rotate cams while doing this you can bend valves/create issues. Unless seals are leaking, I would leave them, esp considering you are learning as you go, and this is a daily driver. Just don't want to see you get in over your head and turn this into a basket case.
Keith

[81SPIDERMATT]

definatly trying to avoid the basket case scenario .... if cam towers (still don't know what they are) do not need to come off then they will stay... but i wont know about the seals until i get in there.... after removing the timing belt cover will i be able to start the car and see if the seals are leaking.... how do i know ...will it be obvious???

[81SPIDERMATT]

i can do the oil pan anytime i guess..what is it that makes it difficult.... is it the cross member..it looks to me that it should slide forward a bit. and come right out.. clean and replace gasket..am i missing something.. not to get off track..just curious.. any thought on the manual for this job (timing belt) ... like i said the more pics the better

[Exit98]

Matt,

Majicwrench is a pro mechanic like others on this board. I'm a duffer.

I agree with Majic about fixing stuff that's not broke. If the old waterpump is good, leave it alone. It could fail tomorrow or in 10 years. The new one could work fine or break in a year.And what if you change it out then find out its leaking from the seal or something?

About the timing chain cover. Leave it on. Major safety issue. Imagine getting your sleeve or a screwdriver or a gold chain in there. Or your finger? That's why it's there.

Good luck by the way, I like your "can do".

[majicwrench]

With belt cover removed still possible to run engine. BUt no need. You will not be able to "see" the seals leak.
Remove cover, mark everything, remove belt. Now look at seal area behind cam gears. If just slightly dirty, sweaty, that is basicly normal. If you can see that oil has been running down from seal, or being sprayed around as gear rotates, seals are leaking. Another judgement call. Are they leaking enough to be worth the bother to change??
Same with crank seal.
Pan, you can search here to find more info.
Almost any manual will show pics of belt change. Am sure you could find it on web too. I would bet most of us have several diff manuals.

[Exit98]

Oh yeah, the oil pan.

It's a pain. You can't slide it out. The internal baffle in the pan interfers with the the oil pump pick up. You gotta lift the motor or drop the crossbrace.

Mine was leaking, then I saw a tip on line. 10mm socket tighten up all the pan bolts you can reach. Worked fine for me. Make a habit of doing it each time you change the oil or otherwise when you down there.

[81SPIDERMATT]

OK..timing belt... seals if they need it .... water pump if loose or noisy....if it is not broke don't fix it.... thanks..a wise man learns from others and does not have to make his own mistakes..... thanks .....matt

[81SPIDERMATT]

does that mean i only need the tee gasket